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So I ran a 6-8 encounter day...
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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7470468" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>This is coming from you, it is not what I am saying. Balance does not mean everyone is the same. Balance means everyone contributes (and shines) equally. And not over something so granular as an encounter or a session, but over time everyone gets equal spotlight. </p><p></p><p>An example of equal but different actions in a single round of one encounter. A sorcerer blasting hordes of henchmen while the cleric heals the unconscious fighter, the wizard casts fly on the paladin so he can engage the wyvern and the ranger sniping spellcasters in the back row. All doing very different things, but all contributing.</p><p></p><p>None of my examples have been making the characters the same. None of my examples have been trying to ensure equal utility on something so granular as an individual encounter. Of course there are variations. If someone wants a "I press cast this, do that, then repeat this until I win" I'd suggest they play video games. Every adventure should be chock full of things to stretch the players in different ways, and make them work to figure out how they can best make their character contribute.</p><p></p><p>My examples were about finding egregious places where things don't work well and fix them. And the specific one at the start of this conversation was that classes who center around performing their role using different resource recovery models are impacted differently by changes in number of combats per day, especially when you get down to 1-2 per day.</p><p></p><p>Since this isn't really my position that you're arguing against, I am going to skip most and jump down to address the last bit of it now:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To reiterate: I never suggested removing differences between characters to address pacing.</p><p></p><p>The only solutions I talked about were the ones from Adventures in Middle Earth, which is based on 5e but reducing the frequency of a long rest (similar to the variant rules in the DMG but based on the narrative of finding a Sanctuary like Elrond's) and 13th Age, where in that d20 system they tuned around at-will/encounter/full-heal-up (4 encounters) instead of at-will/short rest/long rest.</p><p></p><p>Okay, now back to your point in the middle.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Citation needed.</p><p></p><p>Really, it's one of the endlessly recurring topics on ENworld. Behind GWM/SS feats, and probably behind multiclassing. But other then that it's a serious repeat topic. I'd say from that sample that it is something that is a recurring mechanical problem to a wide swath of DMs.</p><p></p><p>And I did explicitly call out the recovery mechanics as a "d20 weapon, not the d100" - in other words still out of whack enough that adjustments will help the general trend toward balance, but not as egregious as some problems. It just happens to be the one we started talking about here.</p><p></p><p>That puts you in a hard place of trying to prove a negative if you want to effectively debate that, but really - it comes up again and again from different posters. Sometimes directly, and sometimes in posts that start with "My party faced a Deadly+ and it was a cakewalk" and then dive down into it. That repeated reoccurance seems to indicate that it is a problem that a lot of DMs are having.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7470468, member: 20564"] This is coming from you, it is not what I am saying. Balance does not mean everyone is the same. Balance means everyone contributes (and shines) equally. And not over something so granular as an encounter or a session, but over time everyone gets equal spotlight. An example of equal but different actions in a single round of one encounter. A sorcerer blasting hordes of henchmen while the cleric heals the unconscious fighter, the wizard casts fly on the paladin so he can engage the wyvern and the ranger sniping spellcasters in the back row. All doing very different things, but all contributing. None of my examples have been making the characters the same. None of my examples have been trying to ensure equal utility on something so granular as an individual encounter. Of course there are variations. If someone wants a "I press cast this, do that, then repeat this until I win" I'd suggest they play video games. Every adventure should be chock full of things to stretch the players in different ways, and make them work to figure out how they can best make their character contribute. My examples were about finding egregious places where things don't work well and fix them. And the specific one at the start of this conversation was that classes who center around performing their role using different resource recovery models are impacted differently by changes in number of combats per day, especially when you get down to 1-2 per day. Since this isn't really my position that you're arguing against, I am going to skip most and jump down to address the last bit of it now: To reiterate: I never suggested removing differences between characters to address pacing. The only solutions I talked about were the ones from Adventures in Middle Earth, which is based on 5e but reducing the frequency of a long rest (similar to the variant rules in the DMG but based on the narrative of finding a Sanctuary like Elrond's) and 13th Age, where in that d20 system they tuned around at-will/encounter/full-heal-up (4 encounters) instead of at-will/short rest/long rest. Okay, now back to your point in the middle. Citation needed. Really, it's one of the endlessly recurring topics on ENworld. Behind GWM/SS feats, and probably behind multiclassing. But other then that it's a serious repeat topic. I'd say from that sample that it is something that is a recurring mechanical problem to a wide swath of DMs. And I did explicitly call out the recovery mechanics as a "d20 weapon, not the d100" - in other words still out of whack enough that adjustments will help the general trend toward balance, but not as egregious as some problems. It just happens to be the one we started talking about here. That puts you in a hard place of trying to prove a negative if you want to effectively debate that, but really - it comes up again and again from different posters. Sometimes directly, and sometimes in posts that start with "My party faced a Deadly+ and it was a cakewalk" and then dive down into it. That repeated reoccurance seems to indicate that it is a problem that a lot of DMs are having. [/QUOTE]
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