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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Denaes" data-source="post: 2730892" data-attributes="member: 33738">The link I gave you to (<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm" target="_blank">http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm</a>) does have a template for PC consuptions and instructions on how to apply it: It tells you everything you need to know for playing the race as a player. What it modifies, what is changed, etc. Now I was partially wrong in this statement, there are a few undead types who have character templates like this. I think like 5 out of 20 (total guesstimate) and I didn't see them in my first flip through the Undead types. The MM doesn't have these quick template PC statups for the common undead types and you'd assume that it would be there rather than just saying "we have undead class levels, but you can just apply the +ECL to your character and use these other ones" when those other ones wern't in PC format. It just seemed that they would take those common undead and provide the PC templates as well. That was why I found it generic/vague. They tell you about two alternate ways to do something, then don't follow up on one of the methods (templates) for the basic undead, just the new undead. The Ghoul is flat out mentioned for use with PCs, has an alternate Undead Class and it says you can apply the undead type as a template to PCs, but there is no writeup in template form of what bonuses/effects happen to the player. None of the undead were viable players in the MM. They wern't assumed that you would be one. I also understand that with a +LA means you can't be a first level character with said template. The section on playing monsters doesn't say that if they don't have PC notes or LA like the Ogre does, that they can't be used. It says that the most common and obvious races for PC use are statted out. Just because the Ghoul isn't statted out with a beneficial PC template block doesn't mean that they're unplayable. But I'd assume a book that makes them playable would provide that template block for ease of use. The D&D zombie is mindless and isn't suitable for a PC. Many games, movies & books do have different zombies and they are extremely popular to play. A section talking about "so you want to play a zombie" explaining what undead types would actually fill your need (like the Ghoul or Necropoliton) would be handy. Same with skeletons. I mean it's great that D&D zombies & D&D skeletons in their 1/4th CR grandour arn't great for PCs, but you may want to play a zombie or skeleton and need to know what your options would be in the system. You're right that I probobly don't fully understand playing Monsters (which is why I created this thread and have been asking questions about it) but I understand that your ECL is your Class Levels + RHD + LA. Some templates apply bonuses (like Fast zombie or Unkillable zombie) but don't have a +LA and don't apply a bonus to HD (but do apply a CR bonus), so it would be like a free benefit for a PC, which doesn't seem right.</blockquote>

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