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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IcyCool" data-source="post: 2731285" data-attributes="member: 20308">Ok, first off, here's a big source of the confusion.  Template is a game term.  You have been using it as both a game term and not as a game term.  Half-dragon is a template, Half-fiend is a template, Ogre is not a template.  Sorry about the confusion, but I couldn't understand where you were finding an Ogre template.Now, yes the information block for the Ogre nicely spells out what a pc Ogre gets.  WotC did this for several monsters that "make suitable PC races".  For others, they just included a LA.Let's just use the word "templates" as a game term, and only apply it to such.  Let's call the ogre example you provided a "PC race block", or something. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />What it is saying in that section is, you can apply one of the several different undead templates to a character (such as the Vampire, Lich, or Ghost templates), or you can use the Savage Species progression for an undead creature.  Let's take your basic ghoul for example.  Ghoul is not a template.  It is an undead creature with 2 racial hit dice, and a +3 level adjustment (according to Libris Mortis).  This means that a standard ghoul as a PC is the equivalent of a 5th level character.  The book, "Savage Species" provided rules for how to create "monster classes", so that if someone wanted to play a ghoul in a 1st level party (as an ECL 1 character), they could.  That character would take more levels of ghoul until he hit 5th level, where he could start taking class levels.Well, the Lich, Ghost, and Vampire templates all have a LA, and as such can be made as PCs.  But you are correct, until Libris Mortis came out, there was no LA for ghouls.Check page 7 in the Monster Manual, under level adjustment:If it doesn't contain a Level Adjustment, it isn't intended for PC use.  That doesn't mean you can take the race or template and apply if for free.  What it means is that your GM will have to make up a level adjustment.  If you have Savage Species, it has rules in there that can help you on this.In either the Monster Manual, or the DMG (I forget which), it shows you how to come up with that PC race block.  The main thing is figuring out the stat modifiers.  This is pretty easy though.  If the Attribute is an even number, subtract 10.  If it is Odd, subtract 11.  This will give you the stat modifiers for the race.  As you are keen on playing a ghoul, I will go through creating this "PC race block" with you for the ghoul.And that is why it doesn't have a LA.  In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find a mindless creature that does.As I mentioned above, if a template doesn't contain a LA (note, an LA of +0 is an LA), then you don't just get it for free.  It isn't meant for player use.  Your GM would have to make up a LA for it.At any rate, on to the "PC Race Block" for a Ghoul:I got the stats by subtracting 10 or 11 (depending on whether the stat in the Monster Manual was even or odd).  The rest of the information was pulled straight out of the Monster Manual, albeit from various places.  If you would like help on understanding where a part of the PC Race Block came from, ask and I'll let you know.If you decided to go monk, and your game started at 9th level, you would have a ghoul with 4 monk levels (ECL 9).That being said, now that I've statted that out, I think you are honestly better off just using the "Gravetouched Ghoul" template in Libris Mortis.  It's only LA +2, and gets you pretty much most of the best things about a ghoul.  That way, you'd have a 7th level monk with all of the "Gravetouched Ghoul" benefits.</blockquote>

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