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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bloodstone Press" data-source="post: 1523457" data-attributes="member: 12468">No. I said "Maturity and ability to learn are not the same thing and are not necessarily related." I think you are confusing learning with maturity. My point is that the maturity you perceive is the result of biological changes in your brain, not book learning or life experiences. Consider this:  do you like to watch tele-tubies??  Why not?  Because you have "learned" that there are better things to watch, or because it is below your maturity level? Consider the elf that doesn't grow out of Sesame Street, Barney and Tele-tubies for 30 years.  That's stretching it, Will.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  If you want to argue the merits of our arguments, I could say that my interpretation fits exactly with what the 3.5 rules say about what age elves mature at. And, my position is supported by the authors of 2e as well (as noted above).  Perhaps, after an elf reaches the abstract reasoning stage and gains control over his/her hormones, he is able to "learn" from experiences as easily as any human.  Perhaps adult elves have "learned" to use their time in Reverie (2e terminology) to "relive" those pits and traps and locks 5 times or more each night when they rest, thus keeping them up to speed with humans.  Perhaps, it’s just a failure in the rules that elves don't start with ECLs.  Hey wait! Some elves do (drow).  Also on the subject of teenagers and adolescence, note that humans today reach puberty much earlier than they ever did before (due to good nutrition and, perhaps, eating hormone enhanced meat products). In the "Middle Ages" most people didn't reach puberty until they were 15 or 16; about the same time they were becoming "adults." Which, by the way, is in the same neighborhood of "starting age" for humans in DnD. Crazy.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />  One other point. Speaking purely from a biological perspective, it is the nature of all things to grow rapidly at birth. The rate of growth then slows dramatically over time until the body starts to deteriorate faster than it can replenishing itself. This is why your joints go bad, your eyes go bad, you lose your hearing, you become more susceptible to diseases with age, etc. All things that live follow that pattern, from humans to trees, to worms. Its got to do with growth hormones, telemiers, and all that other stuff I'm not qualified to talk about.  Logically, the elf's cycle of life would be similar. Obviously, if you prefer magical explanations, then logic has no place. However, without logic, this is a baseless conversation. Without logic, anything is possible.  Without logic, elves might be giant, single celled organisms that play orchestra music with their stomachs while eating alligator voices on February 31st. (ECL+1  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> )</blockquote>

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