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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6342712" data-attributes="member: 2011">How exactly does a PC get +2 Con and +2 Dex ASAP?And no, that is not my presumption at all.Nope.I am assuming that the player either wants/needs +1 hit points per level, or wants/needs +2 hit points per level if he is even thinking about more hit points. The only reason to even consider Tough is because the player wants more hit points, so that is the assumption I am starting with when talking about comparing Tough to other options.If he only wants +1 hit points per level, then +2 Con is a fairly obvious choice. If he thinks that 2 hit points per level is a bit of a waste, then +2 Con is a better choice than Tough. Another possible choice is a feat that gives +1 to Con (like Resilience) and taking +1 to Con another time, but that costs an additional 0.5 ASI.But if he wants +2 hit points per level, the main options are to either take +4 to Con (which takes 2 ASI) or take Tough (which takes 1 ASI).If that is what the player wants, these are his options. I'm merely stating that if he wants +2 hits per level, Tough plus another ASI is often a considerably better choice than +4 Con (because it takes one fewer ASI and it gets him his hit points immediately vs. losing +2 to Cons saves eventually). He often gets more bang for his buck.It all depends on what the player wants. He has one better choice for 1 hit point per level (+2 Con) and he has one (typically) better choice for 2 hit points per level (Tough).For a player who does not want or need more hit points, Tough is a terrible decision and +2 or +4 to Con is not much better. In this case where he does not want/need more hit points but wants/needs a Con save boost, he could take Resilience and be much better off.Tough and Resilience combined is also usually better for players worried about Con saves and hit points than a +4 Con boost since it pits eventual +2 to Cons checks against +1 Con and -1 to +4 Con saves (level and feat order dependent), the rest being equal. +4 to Con in this case is just an inferior choice unless the DM throws a bunch of Con checks at the party.</blockquote>

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