Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
So much seems wrong with Press The Attack and Fall Back
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Rant" data-source="post: 8449427" data-attributes="member: 7033019"><p>Rules quoted first for context:</p><p></p><p>"Press The Attack: When you take the Attack action, you can use a bonus action to make your attacks with advantage. If you do so, until the beginning of your next turn all attacks against you are made with advantage. You may only Press the Attack when you do not have disadvantage on attacks. When you Press the Attack, your target can use its reaction to Fall Back.</p><p></p><p>Fall Back: Whenever a creature within your reach takes the Press the Attack action, you can use your reaction to yield ground. You move backwards 5 feet, your attacker does not gain advantage against you from using Press the Attack, and you have disadvantage on attacks until the end of your next turn. As part of its action, your attacker can move into the space you vacated. A creature using the Rage class feature cannot choose to Fall Back.</p><p></p><p>Opportunity Attacks: The melee attack rolls you make are not the only times a character swings their weapon in a round. There are feints, parries, and other movements that are not rolled. As such, if someone drops their guard, they open themselves up to attack. Such an attack is called an opportunity attack. You can use your reaction to attempt an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. An opportunity attack is a single melee attack against the provoking creature made immediately before the creature leaves your reach. The Disengage action can be used to avoid provoking opportunity attacks. Movement through teleportation does not provoke opportunity attacks, and unless noted otherwise neither does forced movement (such as if you are pushed away by a creature or effect, or if you move past a creature while falling)."</p><p></p><p>So much seems wrong with these new combat options it is jarring, for a finalized version of a product. First, Press The Attack is not limited to melee attacks by any text in the section. Fall Back, the counter, is only valid against characters within the defender's reach, so ranged characters can freely use this to gain advantage, despite the text of Press The Attack noting the targets can use their reaction for Fall Back - sometimes they can, but not always, based on their reach and positioning, per Fall Back's actual description. The ranged attacker using Press the Attack still suffers from advantage regarding attacks against themselves, but this suggests Berserker builds are best suited as Ranged Characters, using Rage to soak damage to counteract Press the Attack making them easier to hit, which is an odd pairing, but as Rage now does nothing for melee damage, instead providing HP each round, ranged Berserkers using Press The Attack seem ideal. That's an odd way to funnel that class that seems unintended.</p><p></p><p>Another odd case based on this wording - an attacker with a reach weapon, attacking a defender without one, can strike from 10 feet away, but the defender cannot use Fall Back because the attacker is not a creature "within your reach" for the defender, the one who would be taking the Fall Back reaction.</p><p></p><p>The wording of Fall Back suggests the 5 foot step back is <em>required</em>, and the wording of Opportunity Attacks means they will take an OA in response from close range (5ft threat) melee attackers using Press The Attack. Fall back isn't much of an improvement, therefore. Instead of the one to three attacks made as part of an Attack Action having advantage, the defender will now suffer an additional attack from the OA, as well as the Attack Action attacks without advantage. Fall Back is the defender's choice, not "forced movement," so assuming 5ft melee ranged, they will suffer an OA in order to fall back in most instances of close range melee combat. How is Fall Back really helpful, in this case?</p><p></p><p>Are there mountains of errata and rules clarification on their way to make any of this make sense?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rant, post: 8449427, member: 7033019"] Rules quoted first for context: "Press The Attack: When you take the Attack action, you can use a bonus action to make your attacks with advantage. If you do so, until the beginning of your next turn all attacks against you are made with advantage. You may only Press the Attack when you do not have disadvantage on attacks. When you Press the Attack, your target can use its reaction to Fall Back. Fall Back: Whenever a creature within your reach takes the Press the Attack action, you can use your reaction to yield ground. You move backwards 5 feet, your attacker does not gain advantage against you from using Press the Attack, and you have disadvantage on attacks until the end of your next turn. As part of its action, your attacker can move into the space you vacated. A creature using the Rage class feature cannot choose to Fall Back. Opportunity Attacks: The melee attack rolls you make are not the only times a character swings their weapon in a round. There are feints, parries, and other movements that are not rolled. As such, if someone drops their guard, they open themselves up to attack. Such an attack is called an opportunity attack. You can use your reaction to attempt an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. An opportunity attack is a single melee attack against the provoking creature made immediately before the creature leaves your reach. The Disengage action can be used to avoid provoking opportunity attacks. Movement through teleportation does not provoke opportunity attacks, and unless noted otherwise neither does forced movement (such as if you are pushed away by a creature or effect, or if you move past a creature while falling)." So much seems wrong with these new combat options it is jarring, for a finalized version of a product. First, Press The Attack is not limited to melee attacks by any text in the section. Fall Back, the counter, is only valid against characters within the defender's reach, so ranged characters can freely use this to gain advantage, despite the text of Press The Attack noting the targets can use their reaction for Fall Back - sometimes they can, but not always, based on their reach and positioning, per Fall Back's actual description. The ranged attacker using Press the Attack still suffers from advantage regarding attacks against themselves, but this suggests Berserker builds are best suited as Ranged Characters, using Rage to soak damage to counteract Press the Attack making them easier to hit, which is an odd pairing, but as Rage now does nothing for melee damage, instead providing HP each round, ranged Berserkers using Press The Attack seem ideal. That's an odd way to funnel that class that seems unintended. Another odd case based on this wording - an attacker with a reach weapon, attacking a defender without one, can strike from 10 feet away, but the defender cannot use Fall Back because the attacker is not a creature "within your reach" for the defender, the one who would be taking the Fall Back reaction. The wording of Fall Back suggests the 5 foot step back is [I]required[/I], and the wording of Opportunity Attacks means they will take an OA in response from close range (5ft threat) melee attackers using Press The Attack. Fall back isn't much of an improvement, therefore. Instead of the one to three attacks made as part of an Attack Action having advantage, the defender will now suffer an additional attack from the OA, as well as the Attack Action attacks without advantage. Fall Back is the defender's choice, not "forced movement," so assuming 5ft melee ranged, they will suffer an OA in order to fall back in most instances of close range melee combat. How is Fall Back really helpful, in this case? Are there mountains of errata and rules clarification on their way to make any of this make sense? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
So much seems wrong with Press The Attack and Fall Back
Top