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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
So much seems wrong with Press The Attack and Fall Back
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<blockquote data-quote="TheAlkaizer" data-source="post: 8450854" data-attributes="member: 7024893"><p>I back a ton of projects on Kickstarter and this is always the attitude to have. You do get the product before everyone else, and sometimes cheaper. But you also get the first printing and there can be surprises. However, I've been carefully selected my products and have rarely been disappointed. I can easily say I've had better experience in term of a "finished product" on Kickstarter than with many mass-market shelf products. Ex. Starfinder launched with entire tables of wrong values and more.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't understand how being meta has anything to do with tactics. The two mechanics absolutely give you and your foes some tactical options. They even give you tactical response when someone does that. Tactics is all about these choices and their context. As per the example that [USER=1]@Morrus[/USER] gave, if an enemy is not too far from a cliff or a pit, it does become and interesting tactical option to Press the Attack. The enemy then has to take a decision; does he let you get advantage on your attack, or yield some ground and risk being shoved soon.</p><p></p><p>As per the example of Falling back and having someone else press the advantage right after, it seems entirely reasonable in the world fiction. If you look at videos of a group of attackers versus one defender, that is exactly what happens. They cover more ground, they threaten a surround and the defender tends to move back and give a lot of ground. Someones the defender will refuse to yield ground, punch someone in the face but then he does expose himself to the others.</p><p></p><p>I have <em>not</em> tried these options concretely in a game, but I like what the decision intention seem to be (introduce more mobility into fights), I think the fiction of it is very believable and, aside from the issues you mentioned that will be fixed through errata, the mechanics seem functional.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It can definitely be seen as a layer of meta decisions. All the rules in the book are. But in the fiction of the game, it's an interesting concept. Just like choosing to squeeze and lose some movement, or make a ranged attack even though you're within someone's reach and a multitude of other "meta tactical decisions", they all translate in in game fiction.</p><p></p><p>Pressing the Attack can absolutely be seen in-game as someone aggressively moving on, getting up close and creating an opportunity. And the person doing Fall Back has a choice, they can let that first individual get an advantage, or give him ground. Both decisions come with other considerations (losing reaction, etc). It's not that different than someone moving out of your range and you choosing if you use your reaction to have an opportunity attack. I will admit that that the two actions (Press the Attack and Fall Back) are very clearly put in opposition and are designed around each other, that much is true.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheAlkaizer, post: 8450854, member: 7024893"] I back a ton of projects on Kickstarter and this is always the attitude to have. You do get the product before everyone else, and sometimes cheaper. But you also get the first printing and there can be surprises. However, I've been carefully selected my products and have rarely been disappointed. I can easily say I've had better experience in term of a "finished product" on Kickstarter than with many mass-market shelf products. Ex. Starfinder launched with entire tables of wrong values and more. I don't understand how being meta has anything to do with tactics. The two mechanics absolutely give you and your foes some tactical options. They even give you tactical response when someone does that. Tactics is all about these choices and their context. As per the example that [USER=1]@Morrus[/USER] gave, if an enemy is not too far from a cliff or a pit, it does become and interesting tactical option to Press the Attack. The enemy then has to take a decision; does he let you get advantage on your attack, or yield some ground and risk being shoved soon. As per the example of Falling back and having someone else press the advantage right after, it seems entirely reasonable in the world fiction. If you look at videos of a group of attackers versus one defender, that is exactly what happens. They cover more ground, they threaten a surround and the defender tends to move back and give a lot of ground. Someones the defender will refuse to yield ground, punch someone in the face but then he does expose himself to the others. I have [I]not[/I] tried these options concretely in a game, but I like what the decision intention seem to be (introduce more mobility into fights), I think the fiction of it is very believable and, aside from the issues you mentioned that will be fixed through errata, the mechanics seem functional. It can definitely be seen as a layer of meta decisions. All the rules in the book are. But in the fiction of the game, it's an interesting concept. Just like choosing to squeeze and lose some movement, or make a ranged attack even though you're within someone's reach and a multitude of other "meta tactical decisions", they all translate in in game fiction. Pressing the Attack can absolutely be seen in-game as someone aggressively moving on, getting up close and creating an opportunity. And the person doing Fall Back has a choice, they can let that first individual get an advantage, or give him ground. Both decisions come with other considerations (losing reaction, etc). It's not that different than someone moving out of your range and you choosing if you use your reaction to have an opportunity attack. I will admit that that the two actions (Press the Attack and Fall Back) are very clearly put in opposition and are designed around each other, that much is true. [/QUOTE]
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So much seems wrong with Press The Attack and Fall Back
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