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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 4365293" data-attributes="member: 18">Sorry, I think you missed why I was saying that. TSR's leadership didn't respect their readers at all, and didn't seem to feel that expanding the audience was a valid goal, which is why I say it's TSR logic. I had forgotten about the general &quot;white-washing&quot;, though, that is a valid point, and something which I think most people are completely unaware of.I think you're right in very specific sense. For the people who like the Paizo Pathfinder series, most of them also like or are neutral to the Paizo iconics. However, I think this is largely because Paizo's iconics are pretty cool, and nowhere near as dull or irritating as WotC's ones. Also, they only pop up &quot;where they should&quot; as it were, which is to say, in books where they're the &quot;default&quot; PCs. Rather than making it so the vast majority of illustrations in every single book of a game have the same couple of dozen characters in them, over and over again. Personally I find that stifles my imagination (obviously not a problem with a pre-written adventure), and generally bores me rigid. Not a single one of my players likes any of the iconics, and indeed, it was one of them who brought up that this &quot;Badly-dressed wizard with big hair&quot; kept appearing in all their books and it was annoying them (regarding Mialee).Also, even though you also have a white, male, human fighter as the &quot;first&quot; iconic, and he is perhaps the least interesting or memorable of them, he at least has the merit of not having a ridiculous chin-beard <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 4365293, member: 18"] Sorry, I think you missed why I was saying that. TSR's leadership didn't respect their readers at all, and didn't seem to feel that expanding the audience was a valid goal, which is why I say it's TSR logic. I had forgotten about the general "white-washing", though, that is a valid point, and something which I think most people are completely unaware of. I think you're right in very specific sense. For the people who like the Paizo Pathfinder series, most of them also like or are neutral to the Paizo iconics. However, I think this is largely because Paizo's iconics are pretty cool, and nowhere near as dull or irritating as WotC's ones. Also, they only pop up "where they should" as it were, which is to say, in books where they're the "default" PCs. Rather than making it so the vast majority of illustrations in every single book of a game have the same couple of dozen characters in them, over and over again. Personally I find that stifles my imagination (obviously not a problem with a pre-written adventure), and generally bores me rigid. Not a single one of my players likes any of the iconics, and indeed, it was one of them who brought up that this "Badly-dressed wizard with big hair" kept appearing in all their books and it was annoying them (regarding Mialee). Also, even though you also have a white, male, human fighter as the "first" iconic, and he is perhaps the least interesting or memorable of them, he at least has the merit of not having a ridiculous chin-beard ;) [/QUOTE]

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