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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6297646" data-attributes="member: 7006">Well, let's remember a couple things here as we delve into this.  First... just because we might be able to say it is currently the "most successful product in the tabletop RPG world right now" (if we look at ICv2 rankings or whatnot)... doesn't really mean much of anything.  Because we have no way of knowing just how much they are selling.  People aren't "buying this stuff in droves" necessarily.  They might be ranked first, but that doesn't mean they are selling huge amounts of product.  Maybe they are.  Or maybe they aren't.  We have no way of knowing.  To paraphrase a Dennis Miller joke, being first right now in the marketplace might be like being the Valedictorian of summer school.Secondly... what Pathfinder players are experiencing is really nothing new.  It happens with all games.  Any game you play consistently... one that you become more and more experienced with and one where you truly learn the game's particular idiosyncracies that you eventually go on to completely master... the more likely the flaws in the game will widen.  This is especially true when you also begin to add new and shiny bits into it that help widen the cracks in the foundation of the game.But there's nothing wrong with pointing those things out-- nor asking for advice on how to patch those cracks in.  You can't put the genie back in the bottle... so you will never recapture the feeling of playing Pathfinder for the first time-- not being an absolute authority on it, not knowing exactly how Part A needs to be paired with Part F so that Parts M, R and Y work together to produce result Z.  And much of the complaints I'm sure people are having are that the equation of (A + F) x (M + R + Y) = Z has now become rote.  It's no longer fantastical.  It's no longer this awesome thing that they figured out as they played... it's a standard issue.  It's the carrying of a 10' pole.  40 years ago it was a brilliant tactic to get around the deadly DM concept of the 'pit trap'... but nowadays its a bland and overused trope.So people are probably just losing the sheen of newness and coolness from Pathfinder, just like they have for almost every other game they play.  It happens.  And it explains perfectly why people move to new games, and why companies produce new editions-- to re-attract players looking to recapture the feeling of  "newness" and not knowing everything there is to know about a game (which therein lies the path to eventual boredom and complaint.)</blockquote>

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