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Message: <blockquote data-quote="El Mahdi" data-source="post: 5971624" data-attributes="member: 59506">Going backwards...? I see no evidence of that. A new edition, designed with feedback from D&D's fans, fans of all editions, is most certainly a step forward...an objective step forward in WotC's approach to D&D. Whether or not the final product is better for people or not will be a subjective decision for each and every fan. But we're so far away from that finished product that declarations like the above are far too premature for any chance of being correct.  Every edition has been controversial. The switch from 2E to 3E was the same, though the internet wasn't...which meant limited avenues for people to express their feelings publicly. But it was there just the same. And that's also the same as it was when switching from 1E to 2E, except there was no internet at all then. It was expressed in letters to Dragon and Dungeon, and other magazines and newsletters. It was expressed face-to-face in gaming groups, on college campuses, and in game stores. It was there, and it was just as vitriolic and emotionally irrational as what 4E fans have endured. However, since June 2008 (and actually a little sooner), 4E has been the only D&D edition in active production. That is being the favorite. And making a blanket statement that 4E's fans haven't been able to is also an unsupportable statement. However, I'm certain there are plenty of 4E fans that did feel like they were the favorites - though they were likely those that don't frequent RPG forums. I'm certain that there are 4E fans that felt they were part of something awesome and now. And that's feeling like the favorite. Plain old probabilities are in my favor here. The opposite opinion...? Not so much. But, whether any 4E fans felt like favorites or not, what they've endured has been no different than the situation with any other editions fans. Suffering the slings and arrows of haters is not new, nor is the level of such new concerning 4E. Personally though, if you were some kid who's first edition of D&D was 4E, I'd have a bit more sympathy and understanding for these feelings. But I can see that you've been playing all the way back to 1E, and you're certainly not a kid. Which means you already know everything I just said about previous edition changes to be true. Having been a gamer during those previous edition changes, how can you possibly say what you've been saying here...?<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" />  No, absolutely not depraved indifference.  First, for this to have been depraved this would have required that 4E fans experienced harm...and no 4E fan has experienced harm due to D&D Next.  Secondly, they've been far from indifferent.  They have actively sought 4E fans contributions in designing 5E, have continued support of DDI 4E support (with forethough), and are actively courting 4E players (along with all other editions fans) to play 5E.  Saying this is depraved indifference, or even similar to, smelling of, or having a je ne sais quoi of it, is a complete overdramatization and absolute exageration. This is 100% a business decision based on WotC's needs and the needs of sustaining D&D as a profitable line...period. As with any other edition change, nobody is coming to gamers houses and taking away their 4E books. The ability to continue playing an edition one prefer's is not being impaired in any form. And WotC does not have any obligation to 4E fans to continue feeding them new material. 4E's time has come and gone as far as active publication is concerned, and that's just the way it is. It's natural, non-malicious, expected (no "edition" lasts forever), completely not personal, and nowhere near the realm of depraved indifference. And in actuality, for 4E fans, things are better than they were for previous editions fans because of one thing: DDI. They've already said DDI support for 4E will continue all the way up to and after D&D Next is released. Whether that support remains in perpetuity remains to be seen, but it is a possibility. But such support during previous edition switches was entirely non-existent. You kids don't know just how good you have it today...<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  It is evidence for nothing of the sort. 4E is not getting any worse treatment than any other edition (in actuality, it's better treatment because of DDI, as I've already pointed out). There is no preset timeline for an editions publication life. And every editions life cycle is linked purely to it's sales. The lifespan of 4E is in no way linked to any intent of treatment on WotC's part. There's no way a company, especially one that belongs to a massive company like Hasbro and beholden to stockholders, is going to be allowed to make decisions based on their feelings about an edition. Or be allowed to treat a property in any manner other than one based on profit viability. Saying otherwise is simply absurd.  And edition wars are purely in the minds of those fans who feel their is some kind of competition between the different editions fandoms. The only competition and warring that exists, exists solely within the minds of a vocal minority...a minority that is pre-disposed to hating. It's like the immortal poem by Bertolt Brecht: "What if they gave a war and nobody came?..." Even though the poem has an oppositie meaning to the one most use it for, that line still applies here: there can be no edition wars if nobody participates in them. And WotC does not start edition wars. They have certainly made mistakes that have provided fuel and ammo for them, and at times unintentionall became a catalyst; but they certainly do not start them, nor even want them.  But the thing that absolutely refutes these ideas of being "kicked to the wayside", "thrown under the bus", "sacrificing the contributions of 4E", or even exhibiting "depraved indifference" - is that WotC has taken the tact with the next edition of actively courting all fans of every edition to contribute, without excluding any editions philosophy...even to the point of wanting to not make this just another edition of D&D, but of wanting to make it simply D&D - period - no editon tag or modifiers. Now you may disagree that WotC can pull off what they're attempting, and that's as valid an opinion as anyone elses at this point. But anyone mistaking personal feelings for fact and intention on WotC's part, despite having the right to hold any opinion they want, are objectively and irrationally wrong. If people don't want to be a part of forming the next (and possibly final) iteration of D&D, that's their choice. But saying that WotC's attempt to make an inclusive game that can play like any edition of D&D (or at least the spirit of any edition) and appeal to fans of all of D&D's editions (hopefully), is "throwing 4E fans under the bus" or "depraved indifference"; is speaking fallaciously, spuriously, and simply objectively wrong.</blockquote>

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