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Message: <blockquote data-quote="El Mahdi" data-source="post: 5971794" data-attributes="member: 59506">Harkening to the past is not going backwards as concerns progress.  Innovation can come from anywhere and be progress, even inspiration from the past.  And there is no evidence yet that 5E is not going to progress D&D's design.  There's too little of D&D Next formed yet for anyone to make such claims.  Making such claims is tantamount to seeing a few connected dots out of a hundred, and saying one knows what the final picture is.  It simply isn't possible. And just because D&D Next is using aspects of 3E, does not mean it's exclusively 3E or anti-4E.  D&D Next is using aspects of all editions.  That means there is apsects or concepts of 4E in it, as well as every other edition.  And stating the contrary is simply not true.  That "brutality" had nothing to do with WotC (or TSR).  It was purely a product of the fans.  Whether it was particularly brutal or not because of that, WotC is not throwing anybody under a bus.  Again, saying the contrary is simply not true.  Balderdash!  This kind of stuff certainly peaks around the release of an edition, but it's always present and never "fades into the background".  If it did, we wouldn't have the consistent stream of threads about edition warring that we have, year in and year out. C'mon Man...<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" />  Since when is the potential to throw fans under the bus, the same as actually doing so...?  DDI is active, ongoing, real support for 4E...something that 3E fans did not have in the run-up to 4E.  And 4E does have 3pp support, and it is support that can (and probably will) continue.  Even if WotC revokes all licenses for 4E, 3pp can still make 4E material using the OGL...they just can't say it's for 4E.  But you and I both know that players will understand that is the game it was made to be used with.  If there's a market for it, 3pp support of 4E will continue.  It's silly to think it won't. As for the OGL and the 3E/4E switch, the OGL was far from something that WotC wanted in existence when 4E was made.  It's more than obvious that if WotC could have legally gotten rid of the OGL, they would have.  The management team that led to greenlighting 4E, all but outright blamed the demise of 3E on the OGL.  And they did not support 3E in any way, shape, or form when they released 4E...OGL or otherwise.  But 4E is still recieving this support, even though they've started on 5E.  That's a very large difference, and a comparison that is valid and far from "grasping at straws". 4E is recieving unprecedented levels of support compared to what previous editions did when a new edition began.  And that's great!  It's one more sign that this time around, WotC is intent on getting it right.  And that's a win-win for WotC and their fans.  WotC is not making a new edition because of the clamoring of the Haters, nor are they catering to anything but their own bottom line.  They are making a new edition purely based on sales of 4E.  If you think that potential 4E fans didn't buy 4E because of this clamoring, then you've been drinking a bit too much of the cool aid.  The clamoring of the haters didn't have a thing to do with the end of active 4E printing...sales did.  Really...?  And where's your evidence?  I can easily see the bits and pieces of previous editions, and I do no see any one specific edition defining the direction of 5E.  And I haven't once been talking about spin in my posts, but only what I've seen of 5E so far.  And so far, they are behaving consistently with the design goals they set forth. If one can't see the 4E elements in the design of 5E so far, then one is either not looking, or just doesn't want to see.  It's amazing how many gamers will complain of "haters", and then when something involves their own favorite edition, do the exact same thing that so infuriates them when it comes from others.<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" />  Again, complete Balderdash.  If that's what one is seeing about 5E, then that's what one wants to see about 5E.  We're so early in the formation of this iteration that it's impossible to even guess at the final form.  But saying that there aren't any 4E influences, concepts, and mechanics in 5E is just out and out false.  There are elements of every edition in there, and all of them contributing to the direction the design is taking. So how about trying this: instead of sitting on the sidelines and taking shots at 5E, get in the game and be a part of guiding it's direction.  Or just enjoy playing 4E or whatever edition you prefer, and stop thinking that the World and big bad WotC is out to get you and your game... Or do you feel doing either of those would steal away your chance of telling the world "see, I told you so" when 5E comes out...?<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /></blockquote>

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