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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Brother MacLaren" data-source="post: 3951474" data-attributes="member: 15999">Fine, I've reread it.  Moldvay p. B6.  "When starting out, each character rolls one hit die, using the type of die given for the character class... As an option, the DM may allow a player to roll again if the player has rolled a 1 or 2 for the number of hit points at first level only."Mentzer p. P50: "Find your character's Class on the chart below, and roll one die to find your starting Hit Points."No.  You could ONLY raise your prime requisite.  It's 1 for 2, 1 increase for every 2 decrease in Int or Wis.  A fighter could only raise Strength.  No score could be lowered below 9.  Con, Cha, and Dex could not be lowered.  Moldvay p. B6, Mentzer p. P49.18 Str and 18 Dex would be extraordinarily difficult to achieve.  You'd need an 18 Dex to start, plus one of the following: 16 Str and either a 13 in Int or Wis or an 11 Int and Wis; 14 Str and 13 Int and Wis; or, 15 Str and 13/11 Int/Wis.  (There are also a few other less likely combinations.)  Even ignoring the Dex, these combinations of Str, Int, and Wis are very unlikely on 3d6 in order.  I'll run the math on it if you want, or you can take my word for it.You're wrong about max HP, and you're overestimating the likely Con bonus.  On 3d6 in order, you have a 74% chance of NO con bonus (160/216).  Even if the DM lets you discard any PC with a Con penalty, you have a 65% chance of no Con bonus (104/160).  The odds of starting with a +1 aren't great, let alone a +2 (16-17 Con).  So your HP total is too high, and your damage total is a bit too low.  Look at the Mentzer Wandering Monsters level 1.  Average of the pure-damage foes is 3.7.  One hit COULD kill you, which is what I said.  Not that it was likely to, but that it could.  Several "level-1" monsters did 1d8 damage, and your typical 1st-level fighter had 8 or fewer HP (he didn't automatically start with maximum, his Con bonus was likely +1 or +0, and he was dead AT zero HP).  If your average 1st-level fighter had 6 HP (a generous 50% chance of a +1 Con bonus and re-rolling 1's and 2's for initial HD), of Mentzer's level-1 wandering monsters, all but the kobold and stirge can kill the PC in one hit.As to magic items, I don't think the few magic trinkets accumulated by 2nd or 3rd make all that much difference against a bar full of Normal Humans.  Are these above the other points you wanted me to respond to?Moldvay, p. B40, "Normal Human": AC 9, Hit Dice 1-4 hit points, Damage by Weapon Type.  HP actually depend on profession; "An adult blacksmith would have 4 hp, but a young child or sickly beggar would have 1 hp."  In Mentzer, this was increased to 1 HD, with the blacksmith having 8 hp.  That's not "N/A" for HP.  And since damage was by weapon, one would assume Normal Human was using an iron or steel weapon and not, say, wood or bone.  Could they gain XP?  In the monster description of "Normal Human" in both versions, "As soon as a human gets experience points through an adventure, that person must choose a character class."  Should you happen to bring a Normal Human along as a retainer on an adventure, they would gain a 1/2 share of XP and then have to select a character class.  Being a member of a PC class, rather than Normal Human, had its advantages (class abilities, better hit rolls, and better saving throws), but it wasn't as much of a gap as 3E (class abilities, better saves, better ability scores, and max HP), let alone what is to be expected from 4E.</blockquote>

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