Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
So what can 4e learn from 5e?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tigris" data-source="post: 9375732" data-attributes="member: 7043270"><p>4E already has in some places the the "Advantage" mechanic. For example the Avenger uses it. It is just more rare to be special. Also a problem in 5E is that its used too often and dont feel special. I agree that in certain places it could be used though.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 22px">Simplified XP tables:</span></strong></p><p></p><p>Some things which can be simplified directly (without changing it mechanically) is how XP works (and slightly even simplify encounter building). I did it here (look at the first 2 points):</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=reddit]RPGdesign/comments/1d6m4j7[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>This is partially inspired by Pathfinder 2, but in the end its the same math as before just showed slightly diferent</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 22px">Escalation dice vs Burst</span></strong></p><p>I like the escalation dice, but not for "speeding up the game" as some people often suggest, but because it can solve the problem of "Everyone just bursts on turn 1".<strong> If that is a problem</strong> with your group, you can <strong>add the Escalation dice</strong>, <strong>but</strong> you would need to <strong>increase </strong>the <strong>enemies defenses by 2 </strong>in exchange, else encounters become too easy (and you have again a problem which can lead to a bit of frustration). If this is not a problem I would not add it, since it just adds another small modifier to track.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You can also try to solve this problem in different ways:</p><p></p><p>- Mix Minions with normal enemies without telling the players which one are which, this way they dont want to first burst a minion</p><p></p><p>- Have enemies with clearly strong and weak defenses, this way players might want to find out first what these are (by attacking) before trying to burst.</p><p></p><p>- Have (sometimes) in combats have more enemies join after 1 or 2 rounds. (Especially with minions as above). This way players might want to wait with using best attacks a bit.</p><p></p><p>- The above also works well with lurkers which are in the beginning just not visible. </p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 22px">Simplifying modifier stacking</span></strong></p><p></p><p>This is motivated by 5E and Pathfinder2E a bit. It is something I have not tried myself now (need to calculate the effects), but which I would like to try is the following:</p><p></p><p>- Combat advantage stacks now 2 times</p><p></p><p>- Modifier to attacks vs an enemy, as well as modifiers reducing an enemies defense, get transformed into Combat Advantage if their value is 3 or less.</p><p></p><p>- The same the opposite, bonus to defense or malus to attack grant a "combat disadvantage" which cancels completly combat advantage (not 5E style), so if you have 3 times combat advantage and 1 "combat disadvantage" you just have 2 times combat advantage (which stacks)</p><p></p><p>- Any Effect which gives +4 or more to attack (or -4 or less to defense) gives "SUPER ADVANTAGE", which is the 5E advantage.</p><p></p><p>- Similarly you have SUPER DISADVANTAGE for the opposite</p><p></p><p>- Super advantage does not stack, but cancels clearly (not 5E style). The only thing it stacks is with 4E effects which already give the same. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The advantage of this system is to have like 5E (and pathfinder 2) a lower maximum of possible stacking things which you have to look at. This makes combat potentially easier and faster. Also you never have situations where you cant miss.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tigris, post: 9375732, member: 7043270"] 4E already has in some places the the "Advantage" mechanic. For example the Avenger uses it. It is just more rare to be special. Also a problem in 5E is that its used too often and dont feel special. I agree that in certain places it could be used though. [B][SIZE=6]Simplified XP tables:[/SIZE][/B] Some things which can be simplified directly (without changing it mechanically) is how XP works (and slightly even simplify encounter building). I did it here (look at the first 2 points): [MEDIA=reddit]RPGdesign/comments/1d6m4j7[/MEDIA] This is partially inspired by Pathfinder 2, but in the end its the same math as before just showed slightly diferent [B][SIZE=6]Escalation dice vs Burst[/SIZE][/B] I like the escalation dice, but not for "speeding up the game" as some people often suggest, but because it can solve the problem of "Everyone just bursts on turn 1".[B] If that is a problem[/B] with your group, you can [B]add the Escalation dice[/B], [B]but[/B] you would need to [B]increase [/B]the [B]enemies defenses by 2 [/B]in exchange, else encounters become too easy (and you have again a problem which can lead to a bit of frustration). If this is not a problem I would not add it, since it just adds another small modifier to track. You can also try to solve this problem in different ways: - Mix Minions with normal enemies without telling the players which one are which, this way they dont want to first burst a minion - Have enemies with clearly strong and weak defenses, this way players might want to find out first what these are (by attacking) before trying to burst. - Have (sometimes) in combats have more enemies join after 1 or 2 rounds. (Especially with minions as above). This way players might want to wait with using best attacks a bit. - The above also works well with lurkers which are in the beginning just not visible. [B][SIZE=6]Simplifying modifier stacking[/SIZE][/B] This is motivated by 5E and Pathfinder2E a bit. It is something I have not tried myself now (need to calculate the effects), but which I would like to try is the following: - Combat advantage stacks now 2 times - Modifier to attacks vs an enemy, as well as modifiers reducing an enemies defense, get transformed into Combat Advantage if their value is 3 or less. - The same the opposite, bonus to defense or malus to attack grant a "combat disadvantage" which cancels completly combat advantage (not 5E style), so if you have 3 times combat advantage and 1 "combat disadvantage" you just have 2 times combat advantage (which stacks) - Any Effect which gives +4 or more to attack (or -4 or less to defense) gives "SUPER ADVANTAGE", which is the 5E advantage. - Similarly you have SUPER DISADVANTAGE for the opposite - Super advantage does not stack, but cancels clearly (not 5E style). The only thing it stacks is with 4E effects which already give the same. The advantage of this system is to have like 5E (and pathfinder 2) a lower maximum of possible stacking things which you have to look at. This makes combat potentially easier and faster. Also you never have situations where you cant miss. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
So what can 4e learn from 5e?
Top