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So what can 4e learn from 5e?
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<blockquote data-quote="Kannik" data-source="post: 9404639" data-attributes="member: 984"><p>Hmmm, seconding the above or adding to the list, from off the top of my head:</p><p></p><p>Less feats, but more impactful ones.</p><p></p><p>Remove the base/generic +X hit and +X damage and +X defensive feats (most of which were a feat fix for improper math – revised 4e would fix the math). Something like “flail expertise” wouldn’t give a blanket +X to hit or damage, but instead special properties for the weapon (such as its existing prone when you can slide ability, and a few more, since there are less feats)</p><p></p><p>Do the same for magic items. No Iron Armbands of Power. Neat stuff, not pure math necessities.</p><p></p><p>Include finesse weapons.</p><p></p><p>Every class whose schtick is using weapons gets to use said weapons for basic attacks with their prime attribute, without spending a feat.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps reduce the base bonus increase from +1 per 2 levels to +1 per 3 levels. Compresses the spread a bit. (could add a bonus + at tier shifts)</p><p></p><p>No attribute bonuses for ancestry choice.</p><p></p><p>4e did this later in its run, and 5e kinda does it through lair actions: all solos act multiple times per turn, and can shrug off otherwise nullifying conditions (ie stunlock).</p><p></p><p>Not that lair actions can’t be a thing – can lean more into 4e’s start into terrain effects.</p><p></p><p>More class riders/abilities as you level up that aren’t tied to just powers. We started to see this with themes (you got something at 5 and 10); make it more broad for class and background and themes.</p><p></p><p>(This one doesn’t come from 5e, but I would follow the above and make classes more strictly about power source, and other flavour abilities would be a new selection of class that would offer both leveled abilities as well as utility power choices. So you could have a ranger-esque profession that gives many of the things we often associate with rangers, such as herbalism and tracking and survival and terrain knowledge. Then you could have a band of rangers, with one as a divine warrior (paladin), one as a primal caster (druid), one as an archer (ranger class), etc.)</p><p></p><p>A few of the archtypes not well handled or not in 4e: better beastmaster, drakewarden, armorer, battle smith, artillerist, circle of stars, drunken master, arcane trickster…</p><p></p><p>I would take Magic Missile from a cantrip and into a 1st level encounter or daily power. Allows you do so more with it (as it’s power level is higher) including be auto-hit without accidentally gimping it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll add more as I think of them. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kannik, post: 9404639, member: 984"] Hmmm, seconding the above or adding to the list, from off the top of my head: Less feats, but more impactful ones. Remove the base/generic +X hit and +X damage and +X defensive feats (most of which were a feat fix for improper math – revised 4e would fix the math). Something like “flail expertise” wouldn’t give a blanket +X to hit or damage, but instead special properties for the weapon (such as its existing prone when you can slide ability, and a few more, since there are less feats) Do the same for magic items. No Iron Armbands of Power. Neat stuff, not pure math necessities. Include finesse weapons. Every class whose schtick is using weapons gets to use said weapons for basic attacks with their prime attribute, without spending a feat. Perhaps reduce the base bonus increase from +1 per 2 levels to +1 per 3 levels. Compresses the spread a bit. (could add a bonus + at tier shifts) No attribute bonuses for ancestry choice. 4e did this later in its run, and 5e kinda does it through lair actions: all solos act multiple times per turn, and can shrug off otherwise nullifying conditions (ie stunlock). Not that lair actions can’t be a thing – can lean more into 4e’s start into terrain effects. More class riders/abilities as you level up that aren’t tied to just powers. We started to see this with themes (you got something at 5 and 10); make it more broad for class and background and themes. (This one doesn’t come from 5e, but I would follow the above and make classes more strictly about power source, and other flavour abilities would be a new selection of class that would offer both leveled abilities as well as utility power choices. So you could have a ranger-esque profession that gives many of the things we often associate with rangers, such as herbalism and tracking and survival and terrain knowledge. Then you could have a band of rangers, with one as a divine warrior (paladin), one as a primal caster (druid), one as an archer (ranger class), etc.) A few of the archtypes not well handled or not in 4e: better beastmaster, drakewarden, armorer, battle smith, artillerist, circle of stars, drunken master, arcane trickster… I would take Magic Missile from a cantrip and into a 1st level encounter or daily power. Allows you do so more with it (as it’s power level is higher) including be auto-hit without accidentally gimping it. I'll add more as I think of them. :) [/QUOTE]
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