Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
So what do you think is wrong with Pathfinder? Post your problems and we will fix it.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6293466" data-attributes="member: 17106"><p>I don't know. I've used the bard in the past of an example of something that tends to be considered as inherently laughable (and indeed, the PF incarnation is not up to snuff, it's fair to say).</p><p></p><p>But that being said, if you're trying to imply that whole dynamic where the spellcasters are just better, or they're just better past a certain level, I think that's pretty clearly not the case, at least, not in the minds of Paizo and their playtesters and subsequent customers.</p><p></p><p>That just doesn't sound realistic to me. Again, too many variables. I don't think I've ever seen a plan that players couldn't completely blow up. The idea that advance prep can work on that level to me is unfeasible and not particularly desirable. To get it would require a lot of restrictions above and beyond normal rules (which is probably why organized play tends to have many such restrictions).</p><p></p><p>I want to be able to prepare material for level X characters and <em>not know what is going to happen when I throw it at them</em>. That's the fun part.</p><p></p><p>Kind of hard to avoid with the level of complexity inherent to D&D. Again, I don't think it's achievable.</p><p></p><p>Nor is it desirable. I wouldn't want to replace football with a game where anyone can just walk onto the field, start playing quarterback, and take a defense apart. You have to learn the playbook, learn how to read defenses in real time, practice in order to execute the plays properly, train athletically, communicate, take coaching, etc. D&D requires less effort than that, but it does require a buy-in. System mastery is not a bad thing in and of itself.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, I don't get the motivation to punish skill. If player 1 knows the game better than player 2, and doesn't get a better outcome, he's got to wonder why. If the players want to play to each other's level or the DM wants to force them into something, okay, but the game isn't responsible for doing that. I can't think of a lot of games where someone who doesn't know the rules doesn't feel useless.</p><p></p><p>What comes second nature to me is divesting myself from the outcome of the game. I don't expect anything on paper to dictate to me how it should go, and I'd rather improvise than have stuff on paper anyway. To me, DMing is about being neutral, not worrying about this kind of stuff at all. Whatever happens, happens. To me, that's what it means to just play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 6293466, member: 17106"] I don't know. I've used the bard in the past of an example of something that tends to be considered as inherently laughable (and indeed, the PF incarnation is not up to snuff, it's fair to say). But that being said, if you're trying to imply that whole dynamic where the spellcasters are just better, or they're just better past a certain level, I think that's pretty clearly not the case, at least, not in the minds of Paizo and their playtesters and subsequent customers. That just doesn't sound realistic to me. Again, too many variables. I don't think I've ever seen a plan that players couldn't completely blow up. The idea that advance prep can work on that level to me is unfeasible and not particularly desirable. To get it would require a lot of restrictions above and beyond normal rules (which is probably why organized play tends to have many such restrictions). I want to be able to prepare material for level X characters and [I]not know what is going to happen when I throw it at them[/I]. That's the fun part. Kind of hard to avoid with the level of complexity inherent to D&D. Again, I don't think it's achievable. Nor is it desirable. I wouldn't want to replace football with a game where anyone can just walk onto the field, start playing quarterback, and take a defense apart. You have to learn the playbook, learn how to read defenses in real time, practice in order to execute the plays properly, train athletically, communicate, take coaching, etc. D&D requires less effort than that, but it does require a buy-in. System mastery is not a bad thing in and of itself. Moreover, I don't get the motivation to punish skill. If player 1 knows the game better than player 2, and doesn't get a better outcome, he's got to wonder why. If the players want to play to each other's level or the DM wants to force them into something, okay, but the game isn't responsible for doing that. I can't think of a lot of games where someone who doesn't know the rules doesn't feel useless. What comes second nature to me is divesting myself from the outcome of the game. I don't expect anything on paper to dictate to me how it should go, and I'd rather improvise than have stuff on paper anyway. To me, DMing is about being neutral, not worrying about this kind of stuff at all. Whatever happens, happens. To me, that's what it means to just play. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
So what do you think is wrong with Pathfinder? Post your problems and we will fix it.
Top