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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6295281" data-attributes="member: 42582">How so? What is convoluted about saying that characters can do extraordinary things without casting spells. 3E is full of such things (say a barbarian's rage, or a rogue's evasion).Not really. It says martial powers "are not magic in the traditional sense, although some . . . stand well beyond the capabilities of ordinary mortals." The same page (4e PHB, p 54) describes martial daily powers in this way: "you’re reaching into your deepest reserves of energy to pull off an amazing exploit." The game leaves it an open question where those "deepest reserves"come from. Is it a type of inhereted divine blessing (as is the case for Aragorn, whose prowess comes to him via the blood of Numenor), or inherited savagery (as is the case for Conan), or training and experience (as is the case for The Punisher)? The game rules don't answer that question. What they make clear is that it is not traditional magic - it is not spells or prayer.Is Numernorean blood magical in some "non-traditional" sense? That's a story question that the game mechanics don't take a view on. Whereas the mechanics do take a view that "arcane formulas" are magic - the traditional magic of spellcasting. Likewise clerical prayers.I don't understand in what sense 4e martial characters are not "grounded". Can you give an example?In the case of my own 4e game, the ranger peppers enemies with arrows, typically at the rate of around 3 shots per round (Twin Strike plus an off-turn action). That is rapid by real-life standards, but no more rapid than a 6th level 3E/PF archer with the appropriate feat loadout.The fighter uses either a halberd or a dwarven maul. He typically attacks all the enemies around him (he has 3 or 4 close burst encounter powers), either sending them flying or (especially with the polearm) wrongfooting them and knocking them prone. He is also good at getting in surprise jabs against enemies who have just been sruck hard or otherwise have let their guard down (strong OA, Jackal Strike, Sudden Opportunity, Strikebacks, etc).I don't really see what the contrast is between this sort of stuff (which is typical for 4e martial characters) and (say) Boromir fighting many foes before being felled by their arrows, or Aragorn running over 40 miles a day for three days in pursuit of the orcs who had kidnapped the hobbits (which is pretty impressive ultra-marathoning, while carrying gear and without a support team).Healing surges aren't remotely magical. Conan, crucified, pulls himself from the cross. That is not magic within the conceits of REH's fiction, though in the real world would be a near-impossible feat. (And in the X-Men required a healing factor to be achieved.) Boromir, as he died, was pulling an arrow from his body (in 4e, that is exactly how a failed death save could play out in the fiction). Gimili, hit in the head by an orc axe, got a bandage and some treatment from Aragorn and then was right as rain, with the injury never mentioned again. And to use a real-life example (from  [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION]), boxers sometimes rise from the canvass before the referee reaches the count of 10.These are the sorts of things that healing surge expenditure models.As for sudden bursts of damage, I don't see how thats magical at all. Aragorn and Boromir can both inflict sudden bursts of damage ("many foes he fought"). So can 3E fighters, by way of Whirlwind strike, multiple attacks pe round, crits, etc. In some respects 4e uses a different system of mechanical implementation (eg in 3E most spike damage is determined on a random frequency, via crit rolls, whereas in 4e some of it is determined by player choice of power usage) but the fiction is no different.I don't use martial practices in my game - I find them a bit clunky, with a tendency to crowd out the general skill rules in an unhelpful way. So I didn't have them in mind in my post.But now that you draw my attention to them, I don't see the issue. Decipher Script doesn't look to me any different from the classic thief ability. By the way, you mis-state the text of the ability. It does not say "you learn to read any language fluently regardless of whether you've ever been exposed to it". It says (MP2, p 149):You learn the meaning of any written text you study, even if you are not fluent in its language. You must examine the words for the entire time [10 minutes], after which you understand the gist of whatever the text says. You also make a History or Streetwise check, and if your result is 30 or higher, you can read the text as if you were fluent in the language. Each use of this martial practice allows you to examine about one page of writing or an eqUivalent amount of text.So in 10 minutes you can get the gist of one page of text (not read it fluently), and on a check that few PCs will be able to make reliably before upper paragon or epic tier (DC 30 is a Hard DC for level 15 and a Moderate DC for level 27), you can read one page fluently.Furthermore, you must be trained in History or Streetwise to use the practice at all (as per the Key Skill rule on p 148). So it is actually the opposite of what you said: the character, through the "school of hard knocks" or through study of histroy, has already established some familiarity (though less than fluency) with the language.There is nothing here that is remotely magical or hints of magic. It is almost exactly the same as the AD&D read language ability (from Gygax's DMG, p 20):This ability assumes that the language is, in fact, one which the thief has encountered sometime in the past.It's just that, in 4e, the player - by using the practice - gets to decide the PC's past exposure to strange languages, rather than having it determined via random die roll.Warded Campsite requirs (via the Key Skill rules) training in either Nature or Thievery. It is about seting traps and snares to wake the PCs if intruders enter.That's not magical. Aragorn is able to stick his ear to the ground and hear the passage of orcs miles away (pp 446-47 of my one volume edition of LotR):He stretched himself upon the ground with his ear pressed against the turf. . . . "The rumour of the earth is dim and confused," he said. "Nothing walks upon it for many miles around us. Faint and far are the feet of our enemies. But loud are the hooves of the horses."Yet you think he couldn't set wards around his campsite, if he wanted too?</blockquote>

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