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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6295290" data-attributes="member: 48965">Because that's your interpretation of what the passage means... not what the actual passage says... it says that the martial power source isn't magic in the traditional sense... again if it isn't magical at all... why not just say martial power is not magic, as opposed to it is not magic in the traditional sense?  IMO, that says it is magic, just not the type of magic that people are traditionally used to.  So with a high enough check you can spend 10 mins and read a language fluently.  I don't care at what level it is likely that you do it reliably, it can be accomplished at even low levels with a high enough roll and the use of this ritual... SO yeah it does say what I claimed it did, contrary to your attempt at pedantry and rules minutia to make it seem otherwise.Where is all of this stated in the rules?  Seriously, are you making the contention that a back-alley thief could encounter supernal or abyssal in the "school of hard knocks" frequently enough to learn to always understand it and sometimes read it fluently?  That's your argument that makes more sense than it being magic in nature?  Seriously?The practice is infallible, by taking the practice the player has made it so that his character understands any language he encounters and if he rolls high enough he not only understands it but understands it fluently... but there's never a chance he doesn't know it or can't understand it, there's an infallibility factor that makes it nothing like Read Language which always had a chance to fail.  IMO, this is magic.First, let's not kid ourselves, Aragorn does use magic, especially as it seems to be defined by Tolkien in Middle Earth... As to the ritual, that's a great description but there is no cost requirement in the actual martial practice for materials to actually do this...only the expenditure of a healing surge... Could Aragorn through stress and fatigue, naked on a featureless plain conjure the materials and supplies necessary to set these infallible tripwires and wards around a campsite?  I don't think he could, unless of course he was a martial character in 4e since there are no materials required (explained as a gp cost to perform the practice in MP 2)... sure sounds like magic (specifically a warding spell) to me...It sure seems like martial power is just magic fueled by the physical as opposed to the mental (psionics), arcane, divine, primal, etc. sourcess of other magic... for another example of this in other games look at the Dawn caste in Exalted, or the adepts in Earthdawn and Shadowrun... they just use less ambiguous language when presenting it.</blockquote>

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