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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 9820252" data-attributes="member: 7635">Part of the problem 4e had with roles was trying to use the classic MMO roles (tank, DPS, healer) and place them on the classic D&D roles (fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue). They don't align right. First, there are only three MMO roles so a fourth had to be invented (controller) that felt ill defined. Wizards in D&D either buff (a support role done by healers) or control space (the job of a tank) with a hearty side dish of damage (the DPS role). Second, the rogue might have become a DPS role due to its reliance on sneak attack, but the fighters role was equally DPS oriented. So when the fighter had to become all defensive, it felt far more restricting and lost some of the more niche play styles like archery (a DPS role since most people don't see a tank with a bow). Ultimately, 4e's biggest problem was that roles initially felt straightjacketing. A fighter was supposed to lock down foes and control aggro. It was terrible if you did anything other than that. Further, class powers often locked you into specific weapons and armor and made it very hard to use stuff not designated by your class (Rogues use daggers, shortswords, rapiers and crossbows because that's what their powers worked with. Want to use a short bow or a club? Tough. I also remember how much reworking avengers got because they were using the wrong kind of armor and throwing off the math). Part of the joy of ttrpgs is not being confined by role specific gear if you want to build into it. It's why I'm glad 5e weapon masteries exist for weapons that no fighter would choose save for a niche build. I have no issues with the concept of roles. I started this thread because I was curious what role the new artificer holds. I prefer roles to be descriptive (the class's kit lends itself to building for certain roles) vs prescriptive (this class is only a healer and you cannot build around that.) abd while I can appreciate what [USER=6779196]@Charlaquin[/USER] is suggesting, I'd rather have a class that that fill two roles adequately than only one role with superiority.</blockquote>

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