So what, exactly, is a "Weird Tale?"

[Desdichado]

In the Mieville/Tolkien debate thread, it's pointed out that Mieville considers his work to be an outgrowth of the "Weird Tales" phenomena.

Now, I've got a kind of "I recognize it if I see it" approach to Weird Tales; I've read my share of Robert E Howard, HP Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith and the likes, but I'm curious -- is there a source out there somewhere that can give me a more precise definition of the genre?

Also, does the genre even exist anymore? Seems like a lot of modern horror and dark fantasy is similar, but no longer binned against Weird Tales. It also seems like the original categorization was fairly broad.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Well, it use to be a comic.

The dark fantasy, the strange, the macombe (sp) I think went out of fashion, it was the story with the dark ending where normal people were forced into a situation ending in an outcome less than nice.

Why did it go out of fashion? The depression had a lot to do with it. People before that enjoyed the fear and unknown, after it, people did not want to be reminded of a lot of things.

 

[Desdichado]

I assume you're referring to the pulp magazine (not comic that I've ever heard) entitled "Weird Tales" which had it's glory years during and beyond the Depression actually, and which is, I believe, currently back in print?

No, I'm referring more to the genre specifically.

 

[Dimwhit]

I assume you're referring to the pulp magazine (not comic that I've ever heard) entitled "Weird Tales" which had it's glory years during and beyond the Depression actually, and which is, I believe, currently back in print?

No, I'm referring more to the genre specifically.

I'm not familiar with the genre specifically. But the magazine is still around. They're at:

http://www.weird-tales.com/

Supposed to be pretty good, from what I understand.

As for defining a 'Weird Tale' I think that's probably difficult these days. I don't think it's really a genre anymore, but rather a quality of certain work within other genres (like horror, fantasy, and scifi). But again, I'm not too up on it.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

In the Mieville/Tolkien debate thread, it's pointed out that Mieville considers his work to be an outgrowth of the "Weird Tales" phenomena.

Now, I've got a kind of "I recognize it if I see it" approach to Weird Tales; I've read my share of Robert E Howard, HP Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith and the likes, but I'm curious -- is there a source out there somewhere that can give me a more precise definition of the genre?

Also, does the genre even exist anymore? Seems like a lot of modern horror and dark fantasy is similar, but no longer binned against Weird Tales. It also seems like the original categorization was fairly broad.

I always considered it to be gothic horror but modern for its time.

 

[Desdichado]

But gothic is a very circumscribed subgenre, and the classic weird tales differ from it in a variety of very significant ways.

 

[Desdichado]

Right Here on the Weird Tales website, you can see a definition of sorts they published in 1924. However, that is so broad as to be unusable; basically it covers everything from fantasy to science fiction to occult horror.

It's entirely possible that the "Weird Tale" is a phenomena that wasn't named as such until after the fact in many ways, but I certainly think "Weird Tales" as a genre can probably be outlined. I'm not quite sure how to do it, though. Simply saying that a work is "Lovecraftian" isn't a good definition, for example.

 

[nikolai]

In the Mieville/Tolkien debate thread, it's pointed out that Mieville considers his work to be an outgrowth of the "Weird Tales" phenomena.

Now, I've got a kind of "I recognize it if I see it" approach to Weird Tales; I've read my share of Robert E Howard, HP Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith and the likes, but I'm curious -- is there a source out there somewhere that can give me a more precise definition of the genre?

Very good question.

I don't think weird tales are as established a genre as others. It's also been pointed out that to some degree all genres leach into each other, and are just a rough way of grouping together similar sorts of books. I also don't think there is an "official" source which can give you a tight, precise definition.

The defining aspect of weird tales, is their weirdness. Here's a fantastic quote I ran into a while back:

While much genre fiction was hackwork, the standard of hackery involved was often high, especially when compared to our degraded age; at the very least, publications like Weird Tales did expect a certain minimum level of weirdness from their contributors.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/sciencefiction/0,6121,348140,00.html

This is what makes them different to say fantasy or gothic literature. Gothic deal with tropes like ruined castles, vampires etc., I think weird tales main trope is their "cosmic horror". Powerful and alien forces which humanity can not comprehend, that's what make Call of Cthulhu different from, say, Dracula.

The best "official" source is Lovecraft's essay "Supernatural Horror in Literature".

http://miskatonicuniversitypress.co...rature/lovecraft/essays/supernat/supern00.htm

What Lovecraft called weird tales evolved from the Victorian Ghost Story, and early authors like Bierce, Hawthorne and M. R. James. I think this is the key quote where he tries to express how weird tales are different from other forms of horror such as the gothic novel or the ghost story.

The true weird tale has something more than secret murder, bloody bones, or a sheeted form clanking chains according to rule. A certain atmosphere of breathless and unexplainable dread of outer, unknown forces must be present; and there must be a hint, expressed with a seriousness and portentousness becoming its subject, of that most terrible conception of the human brain -- a malign and particular suspension or defeat of those fixed laws of Nature which are our only safeguard against the assaults of chaos and the d&aeligmons of unplumbed space.

That's what I think at the moment, it may even be right. I'm just really feeling my way around the area at the moment, and am by no means an expert. I'm interested to know what everyone else thinks.

It might be interesting to try to put together a "canon" of weird tales.

nikolai.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

But gothic is a very circumscribed subgenre, and the classic weird tales differ from it in a variety of very significant ways.

Maybe it would be better and easier then to define Weird Tales by focusing on what the intended reactions and feelings of the reader.

 

[Desdichado]

I've just recently reread most of that essay (it's actually fairly tedious and devolves quickly into a horde of mini-reviews.) Of course, he quotes a lot of pre-Weird Tale literature, and talks about it being Weird as well. It's not really all that cohesive.