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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7347136" data-attributes="member: 4937">Whatever method that a system uses to decide whether or not a game proposition is successful.&nbsp; Classically speaking, the sort of dice that are rolled, but for example the pull of a jenga block in Dread. I believe that I stated that repeatedly in this thread, but if I didn't, then yes, the game is not trying to suit everyone by design based of a design principle whose core thesis is that no game can suit everyone because players of games have mutually exclusive goals.Where did that comment come from?&nbsp;&nbsp; Unintentionally fully and ironic.&nbsp; If you want to understand why people don't have the same tastes that you do, perhaps it would be beneficial for you to apply that advice by bothering to learn and appreciate why others feel as they do.&nbsp; In Forge terms, my problem with FATE is primarily that it doesn't scratch my Narrativist itch.&nbsp;&nbsp; I could put up with the system if it seemed to encourage story telling and created the experience of being in a great narrative almost as one were a character within a novel or movie that was unfolding as you played.&nbsp;&nbsp; My problem with it is that it not only doesn't do that, it does that more poorly that just about any system I've ever encountered.&nbsp;&nbsp; I have no idea what 'itch' it is scratching for other people, because ostensibly it is a story telling game but just as the mechanics of Vampire: The Masquerade didn't actually support the story that it's fluff proposed to the player (in the original game book) so too does FATE actually create a game that seems utterly ill suited to producing a story from its mechanics and rituals of play.&nbsp;&nbsp; And honestly, that isn't even what I was principally complaining about.&nbsp; What was actually on my mind during those comments is that aside from anything else about a game, I personally have a peeve with any system regardless of what it is so supposed to produce through play where there is not a contract between the players and the game master that the game master will be (among whatever other hats that they wear) an impartial judge.&nbsp;&nbsp; That is an opinion and a personal preference, as there is no reason that a game which doesn't have an impartial judge couldn't be fun.&nbsp;&nbsp; But, aside from that, it doesn't even feel like it's a good narrativist game (as Forge educated folks would put it).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7347136, member: 4937"] Whatever method that a system uses to decide whether or not a game proposition is successful. Classically speaking, the sort of dice that are rolled, but for example the pull of a jenga block in Dread. I believe that I stated that repeatedly in this thread, but if I didn't, then yes, the game is not trying to suit everyone by design based of a design principle whose core thesis is that no game can suit everyone because players of games have mutually exclusive goals. Where did that comment come from? Unintentionally fully and ironic. If you want to understand why people don't have the same tastes that you do, perhaps it would be beneficial for you to apply that advice by bothering to learn and appreciate why others feel as they do. In Forge terms, my problem with FATE is primarily that it doesn't scratch my Narrativist itch. I could put up with the system if it seemed to encourage story telling and created the experience of being in a great narrative almost as one were a character within a novel or movie that was unfolding as you played. My problem with it is that it not only doesn't do that, it does that more poorly that just about any system I've ever encountered. I have no idea what 'itch' it is scratching for other people, because ostensibly it is a story telling game but just as the mechanics of Vampire: The Masquerade didn't actually support the story that it's fluff proposed to the player (in the original game book) so too does FATE actually create a game that seems utterly ill suited to producing a story from its mechanics and rituals of play. And honestly, that isn't even what I was principally complaining about. What was actually on my mind during those comments is that aside from anything else about a game, I personally have a peeve with any system regardless of what it is so supposed to produce through play where there is not a contract between the players and the game master that the game master will be (among whatever other hats that they wear) an impartial judge. That is an opinion and a personal preference, as there is no reason that a game which doesn't have an impartial judge couldn't be fun. But, aside from that, it doesn't even feel like it's a good narrativist game (as Forge educated folks would put it). [/QUOTE]

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