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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 6887003" data-attributes="member: 15700">I don't think this is true.  For one, it's not really a "grognard" issue; that's just a passive aggressive snipe at group of gamers you obviously don't like by your terminology you're using.  It came down to how a person reconciled "should you actually do damage with weapons when you completely miss what you're attacking" and that is not a generational question.  Fans of every edition were split.  I've been playing 1e since 1981 all the way to 2012 when the playtests came out, and I really didn't have that much of an issue with it.  It wasn't my first preference, but I could see the other side of the argument and wouldn't have worried too much if they kept it in. Secondly, it assumes that the design team went out of their way to appease grognards, which is also untrue.  It's an observation that makes me shake my head every time I read things like that.  Just because some elements of TSR era D&D were brought into 5e, doesn't mean they were "appeasing grognards".  Elements and concepts from every edition was brought into 5e.  I'll never understand why people will ignore the elements from their favorite version, see elements from another version, and say or otherwise imply that 5e catered to that other version while ignoring theirs.  If they really wanted to "appease the grognards", they would have used THAC0, save or die, made it more lethal, had level limits, increased niche protection, and never had things like dragonborn or tieflings as options to play, or had any non-magical healing or feats or ASIs.And thirdly, the "nice things" you're talking about is purely subjective and your opinion.  Obviously lots of people felt that DoaM wasn't a nice thing.  I'm guessing the majority who filled out the surveys didn't think so, since that's what they seem to have made their changes based on.  It's also blatantly untrue that any sort of influence from "grognard preferences" automatically means removing all the good things from the fighter design.</blockquote>

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