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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 9048742" data-attributes="member: 1210">I looooove high and epic level play, both as a player and a DM, but ONLY if the group earned its levels. Starting at high levels leaves me very unsatisfied; so much of good high level play involves calling on relationships from previous adventures, using connections gained over time, and having weird, off-the-books resources. You just don't get that when you make 16th (or whatever) level characters.High level play is amazing. The stakes can be much higher, the solutions can be less obvious (or, more likely, as a DM I will throw epic problems at the pcs with no solution in mind), the setting can be anything you can think of. Sure, mid- to high-level pcs can handle hostile environments and big stakes, but there's a difference between "a slaad lord and a handful of lackeys perptrating some scheme" and "slaad tadpoles are falling from the sky, all around the world, and infecting and transforming creatures in only moments". Only one of these has an epic threat and epic stakes and requires epic solutions. (And the slaad rain is an example of an epic threat that I used in my campaign.)High level play tends to be more player-driven. It's often more "what are you going to do?" and less "here's an adventure for you". It can switch locales and even planes at a moment's notice, so the DM has to be able to improvise to keep up. The players' tools still include "I cast a spell" and "I hit it with my sword", but they now might include "I marshal an army" and "I sell all my precious gems cheap to crash the market" and "I teleport to a small town and destroy it, then threaten to keep doing that at random unless the king backs down". One common trope that I think is terrible is the notion that every threat should be world-shaking. Sure, once in a while- but really, only ONCE in a while. Just the once. Other epic threats can be more abstract or down to earth, with different (but still massive) stakes, such as an entity trying to extinguish hope itself, corruption taking over a religious or political organization, politics (worldly or planar), first contact with strange entities of prodigious power and inscrutable motivation, natural disasters (imagine your pcs trying to handle a Mt Vesuvius type eruption, or a flood that sweeps across an entire continent, or a fast-spreading plague), creating a prophecy for a future chosen one and setting up the world to produce them at the right time, etc. It's a real shame so many of you guys haven't experienced good high level play, but I understand how hard it is to achieve. Still, if you ever get the chance, a persistent campaign with long term pcs and troupe-style play (where all the players switch pcs out from time to time) is a great way to do it, with the prime pcs targeted at becoming epic with the others around for when you get the urge for lower level play, is a good way to do it. But I get that that kind of game is rare these days.</blockquote>

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