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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6659536" data-attributes="member: 5834">Is it? Explain the difference. If a class can perform a general combat option in a much superior fashion to another character, is that not a class feature/power? What is the difference between a class power as they used in 4E from a wizard to a fighter when the powers were often reskinned version of a similar power to another class in terms of damage and effect. How does this provide any more differentiation and agency than the a maneuver or feat the martial can take in 3E? Give me a concrete explanation of the difference. Both mechanically allow the player to alter the world using their abilities to do so.The DM has to account for any overpowered combination including martial concepts. Are you trying to claim overpowered martial concepts did not exist? They most certainly did. The entire 3E game was one of immense power. Do you think high level fighter damage was very easy to deal with? Fighters in our campaign almost always obtained a ring of freedom of movement to prevent them from being grappled or held. Once they had that, they eliminated one of the major impediments an enemy could place on them. Then they hammered for immense damage that only the most powerful creatures could stand up to for more than a round or two. The biggest abuses in 3E were wizards and their nearly unlimited spell selection. Give them time, they can set almost anything up. But martials had plenty of abusable options. So don't pretend only casters created problems for DMs. That would be a fallacy. Martials could solve a bunch of problems by simply threatening the enemy. Not much but perhaps a high level caster would have much of a chance against them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 6659536, member: 5834"] Is it? Explain the difference. If a class can perform a general combat option in a much superior fashion to another character, is that not a class feature/power? What is the difference between a class power as they used in 4E from a wizard to a fighter when the powers were often reskinned version of a similar power to another class in terms of damage and effect. How does this provide any more differentiation and agency than the a maneuver or feat the martial can take in 3E? Give me a concrete explanation of the difference. Both mechanically allow the player to alter the world using their abilities to do so. The DM has to account for any overpowered combination including martial concepts. Are you trying to claim overpowered martial concepts did not exist? They most certainly did. The entire 3E game was one of immense power. Do you think high level fighter damage was very easy to deal with? Fighters in our campaign almost always obtained a [I]ring of freedom of movement[/I] to prevent them from being grappled or held. Once they had that, they eliminated one of the major impediments an enemy could place on them. Then they hammered for immense damage that only the most powerful creatures could stand up to for more than a round or two. The biggest abuses in 3E were wizards and their nearly unlimited spell selection. Give them time, they can set almost anything up. But martials had plenty of abusable options. So don't pretend only casters created problems for DMs. That would be a fallacy. Martials could solve a bunch of problems by simply threatening the enemy. Not much but perhaps a high level caster would have much of a chance against them. [/QUOTE]

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