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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6663092" data-attributes="member: 5834">Do you play 5E? Or are you theorizing? Concentration is a high cost that makes a caster often choose between offense and defense leaving them very vulnerable to attack. There are no save or die spells. All spells in general work to set up someone else in the party because the caster can't stack spells to kill himself. Even  more so than any previous edition, the caster is extremely dependent on the martials to do damage while he supports them with effect spells and buffs. I have played a wizard to level 16. It is not as you think it is. In fact, it is very painful at times. You have to make some very careful spell choices. You have to make sure you don't make too many mistakes or you die. You can't do the old powerhouse defenses of casting fly and invisibility or other such defenses. You'll likely still get killed, especially at higher level where the monsters do a ton of damage.And the concentration mechanic. And Legendary Resistance. And Bounded Accuracy making it quite possible for a creature to save. And the expensive cost of spells. And the lack of high level spells slots. You can't teleport twice per day until at least 15th level. You can never really cast fly on the entire party for long periods of time. It is extremely costly in time and material components to make teleportation circles. There are a lot of stop gaps on casters in this edition. I can only surmise you haven't tried playing the game the much and thus don't realize how many there are.Gee. In my campaigns that happens all the time, so I guess D&D is mirroring that quite well. Martials kill terrifying monsters quite often in 5E. They are the primary damage dealers in this edition. Given saves aren't astronomically high in this edition, they make it more often than prior, especially paladins.5E has toned this down considerably from 3E. Far more than you give it credit for.   Explain what the genre heroes do. I've read Conan, he hits things. I've read Launcelot, he hits things. Arthur hits things. Grey Mouser is a rogue and does rogue stuff with a little magic. Fafhrd hits things. Gwydion Son of Don hits things and has some magic user levels. What characters are you talking about? And what do they do that can't be accomplished by the fighter? Give me some book examples of mundane fighting men that weren't Gods that do something with mundane skills the fighter can't. I'm not sure what you're looking for. There are other classes to mirror different types of martials. Fighters are fine in 5E. They are highly effective. They are not severely outclassed by casters. Having seen them played in a few campaigns now, fighters have often proven more effective than casters in the most important fights due to not having to deal with Legendary Resistance. As far as the rest, if you want to mirror a skilled fighter, make a fighter-rogue or use one of your feats to buy skilled. DM should be able to work in non-combat challenges for you just as he does for other classes. I don't see what you're talking about in 5E. I can understand what you're talking about if you're just looking at the books and theorizing. In play fighters are quite nasty. Backgrounds do give them some skill diversity. They even have a few abilities that are nice in a non-combat sense like the Champions proficiency in all physical skills. The Battle-master's ability to assess opponents. 5E fighter is one of the most balanced and capable I've seen in D&D. Not sure what more you want unless you're pushing for anime style capabilities. I would prefer that not be in the game myself. I want fighters to be the mundane fighting man. I would not enjoy a game that turns them into anime guys causing earthquakes with their blades or leaping over mountains. I'd rather D&D just accept those players will find another game that allows them to do those type of things and stick with the fantasy level they've been at for most of their existence.</blockquote>

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