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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6663154" data-attributes="member: 22779">I gave an example earlier with &quot;Crack the Shell&quot; - an attack that deals damage an imposes an AC penalty.&nbsp; Can you honestly not think of a literary example of this?Or, if you want a real world example - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-sword" target="_blank">Half Swording</a> where you grip the blade of the sword and thrust it like a spear - extra damage attack, and probably turns the sword of any type into piercing damage.&nbsp; How would I model that?&nbsp; Are you honestly saying you can't imagine a stunning attack with a maul or a mace?&nbsp; How about a simple knockdown attack?&nbsp; Where I actually deal damage AND knock something on its ass instead of giving up dealing damage.&nbsp; Heck, you mention Conan - how do I reliably throw my sword?&nbsp; That's certainly something that's done in genre fiction.&nbsp; How about a Stop Thrust - where you &quot;counter thrust attack into the opponent’s forward movement or oncoming attack&quot; to stop someone's movement toward you.&nbsp; A fairly simple manoeuvre that reduces a target's movement to zero for one round and still deals damage.These are all things you can't actually do with a fighter.------Now, as far as Hemlock's Dissociated mechanics bit, I really, really don't care.&nbsp; Why should our hypothetical class be limited by people who don't want the class in the first place?&nbsp; It's an optional class.&nbsp; If you don't like it, don't use it.&nbsp; It's really that simple.&nbsp; Just because I get something I want doesn't mean that I should be bound by people who can't wrap their heads around the idea.&nbsp; It's like the Warlord discussions where people refuse to accept the idea of martial healing.&nbsp; It's an optional class.&nbsp; If you don't like it, don't use it.&nbsp; But stop piddling in the cornflakes of those of us who aren't opposed to the idea.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6663154, member: 22779"] I gave an example earlier with "Crack the Shell" - an attack that deals damage an imposes an AC penalty. Can you honestly not think of a literary example of this? Or, if you want a real world example - [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-sword]Half Swording[/url] where you grip the blade of the sword and thrust it like a spear - extra damage attack, and probably turns the sword of any type into piercing damage. How would I model that? Are you honestly saying you can't imagine a stunning attack with a maul or a mace? How about a simple knockdown attack? Where I actually deal damage AND knock something on its ass instead of giving up dealing damage. Heck, you mention Conan - how do I reliably throw my sword? That's certainly something that's done in genre fiction. How about a Stop Thrust - where you "counter thrust attack into the opponent’s forward movement or oncoming attack" to stop someone's movement toward you. A fairly simple manoeuvre that reduces a target's movement to zero for one round and still deals damage. These are all things you can't actually do with a fighter. ------ Now, as far as Hemlock's Dissociated mechanics bit, I really, really don't care. Why should our hypothetical class be limited by people who don't want the class in the first place? It's an optional class. If you don't like it, don't use it. It's really that simple. Just because I get something I want doesn't mean that I should be bound by people who can't wrap their heads around the idea. It's like the Warlord discussions where people refuse to accept the idea of martial healing. It's an optional class. If you don't like it, don't use it. But stop piddling in the cornflakes of those of us who aren't opposed to the idea. [/QUOTE]

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