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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6663268" data-attributes="member: 22779">All Battlemaster manoeuvres deal damage and have an effect.&nbsp; Or, at least most of them do.&nbsp; That or you're helping someone else do damage or you're healing.&nbsp; Shouldn't that be the baseline?But at least [MENTION=93321]Psikerlord#[/MENTION] gets my point.&nbsp; Nice to see someone does.But watching Sacrosanct and Hemlock go through the mental contortions to ignore the dissociated nature of 5e just to avoid having to have any &quot;taint&quot; of 4e in 5e is hilarious.&nbsp; Good grief, how does one &quot;draw upon reserve energy&quot; to completely heal potentially lethal wounds?&nbsp; After all, a fighter could be bloodied by an attack - thus have actual physical appearance of damage, the player drops his second wind and poof, no more cuts and he mag... err... oops, not magically, regenerates.&nbsp; But, this is, of course, all associated, because, apparently, fighter training gives me a special button I can push in my belly button that fills up my Hit Points.&nbsp; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing&nbsp; &nbsp; :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />Just like apparently, getting really angry makes my skin twice as tough so it take a bear twice as long to eat me.&nbsp; Note, the whole &quot;dodging and shaking off pain&quot; is something that's been added.&nbsp; There's nothing in the books that says this.&nbsp; How is this different than any other post hoc justification that 4e players were accused of doing?&nbsp; In any case though, what difference would it make if they did go full bore dissociated in an optional character?&nbsp; Why would that bother you in the slightest?&nbsp; It's not like you're going to use it and it makes me happy.&nbsp; Why do you care?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6663268, member: 22779"] All Battlemaster manoeuvres deal damage and have an effect. Or, at least most of them do. That or you're helping someone else do damage or you're healing. Shouldn't that be the baseline? But at least [MENTION=93321]Psikerlord#[/MENTION] gets my point. Nice to see someone does. But watching Sacrosanct and Hemlock go through the mental contortions to ignore the dissociated nature of 5e just to avoid having to have any "taint" of 4e in 5e is hilarious. Good grief, how does one "draw upon reserve energy" to completely heal potentially lethal wounds? After all, a fighter could be bloodied by an attack - thus have actual physical appearance of damage, the player drops his second wind and poof, no more cuts and he mag... err... oops, not magically, regenerates. But, this is, of course, all associated, because, apparently, fighter training gives me a special button I can push in my belly button that fills up my Hit Points. :lol: Just like apparently, getting really angry makes my skin twice as tough so it take a bear twice as long to eat me. Note, the whole "dodging and shaking off pain" is something that's been added. There's nothing in the books that says this. How is this different than any other post hoc justification that 4e players were accused of doing? In any case though, what difference would it make if they did go full bore dissociated in an [i]optional[/i] character? Why would that bother you in the slightest? It's not like you're going to use it and it makes me happy. Why do you care? [/QUOTE]

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