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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6664313" data-attributes="member: 996">Feats are optional, and the fighter gets two ASIs, on at 6th, the other at 14th.&nbsp; Most campaigns don't go much past 10th, so you're talking a +1 mod in one stat.&nbsp; That doesn't even stack up well compared to a guidance cantrip, let alone Expertise.&nbsp; OR, if the DM opts into it, a single feat (your second-choice feat, since you got one at 4th), in the second half of the campaign (and, at 8th, everyone gets another feat, and your advantage is your third-choice feat).&nbsp; Contrast that to the 3.x fighter:&nbsp; Bonus feat at 1st level, another every even-numbered level, for a total of 18 vs the 7 everyone else got.&nbsp; That 157% more feat power for the 3.5 fighter, vs 33% more for the 5e, if feats are even allowed.&nbsp; &nbsp;Magic is part of the fantasy genre and of they myths &amp; legends that inspire that genre, but so are super-human feats performed by heroes without magic.&nbsp; So, for that&nbsp; matter, are beliefs that magic permeates reality, that nothing is really mundane.The 'horrible fallacy' is the double-standard some gamers want applied to a fantasy game in which some aspects are allowed to follow genre, while others are limited to some modern standard of realism, or even to the dreaded reality-isn't-real trope, in which not even real, documented things are 'realistic' enough.&nbsp; And, further, taking it not only to the point of failing to model genre, but to and well past the point of wrecking game balance, as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6664313, member: 996"] Feats are optional, and the fighter gets two ASIs, on at 6th, the other at 14th. Most campaigns don't go much past 10th, so you're talking a +1 mod in one stat. That doesn't even stack up well compared to a guidance cantrip, let alone Expertise. OR, if the DM opts into it, a single feat (your second-choice feat, since you got one at 4th), in the second half of the campaign (and, at 8th, everyone gets another feat, and your advantage is your third-choice feat). Contrast that to the 3.x fighter: Bonus feat at 1st level, another every even-numbered level, for a total of 18 vs the 7 everyone else got. That 157% more feat power for the 3.5 fighter, vs 33% more for the 5e, if feats are even allowed. Magic is part of the fantasy genre and of they myths & legends that inspire that genre, but so are super-human feats performed by heroes without magic. So, for that matter, are beliefs that magic permeates reality, that nothing is really mundane. The 'horrible fallacy' is the double-standard some gamers want applied to a fantasy game in which some aspects are allowed to follow genre, while others are limited to some modern standard of realism, or even to the dreaded reality-isn't-real trope, in which not even real, documented things are 'realistic' enough. And, further, taking it not only to the point of failing to model genre, but to and well past the point of wrecking game balance, as well. [/QUOTE]

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