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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6664398" data-attributes="member: 996">Wow, strawman much?&nbsp; How did you get from heroes in fantasy displaying superhuman feats, to dwarves not casting spells?LotR really wasn't too crazy, if you held casters to the standard of Gandalf, they'd never exceed 5th level or so.&nbsp; But we don't hold casters to the standard of what Gandalf actually did, or even what he was rumored to be capable of, instead, D&amp;D casts a wide net and pulls 'spells' from all over myth, legend and literature (and movies).&nbsp; Hold Portal, Pyrotechnics, and maybe a few others from Gandalf (or maybe just the Ring of Fire Elemental Command &amp; Staff of the Magi/Power).&nbsp; Polymorph Other from Circe.&nbsp; Prismatic Spray from Mizirian.&nbsp; Magic Missile and Shield from Roger Corman's 'the Raven.'&nbsp; Wall of Force and Disintegration rays from effing science fiction.&nbsp; ESP, Magic Jar, Astral Projection and others from Theosophy.&nbsp;&nbsp; One character in one source doing one supernatural trick once rates a spell in D&amp;D.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Heroes in genre do things that normal people IRL can't.&nbsp; Doubly so in myth &amp; legend.&nbsp; D&amp;D doesn't do a good job of modeling such things.Mizirian the Magician, uses The Excellent Prismatic Spray in one scene in one short story, and Prismatic Spray makes it into the D&amp;D wizard's repertoire.&nbsp; One character in one relatively obscure story uses one supernatural power once, and it justifies adding a 7th level spell to the game.&nbsp; That's one standard. Fergus mac Roth punches the top off a mountain, then he does it again.&nbsp; He's not even a demi-god or anything, nor is he the only guy in Celtic mythology to do that sort of thing.&nbsp; Beowulf tears a monster's arm off with his bare hands.&nbsp;&nbsp; Count Brass literally takes a massive bull by the horns and forces it to it's knees.&nbsp; Multiple archetypal characters displaying a superhuman, but not supernatural ability, but in most editions of D&amp;D, fighters can't even make particularly effective unarmed attacks thanks to niche-protection for the Monk.&nbsp; That's the other standard.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6664398, member: 996"] Wow, strawman much? How did you get from heroes in fantasy displaying superhuman feats, to dwarves not casting spells? LotR really wasn't too crazy, if you held casters to the standard of Gandalf, they'd never exceed 5th level or so. But we don't hold casters to the standard of what Gandalf actually did, or even what he was rumored to be capable of, instead, D&D casts a wide net and pulls 'spells' from all over myth, legend and literature (and movies). Hold Portal, Pyrotechnics, and maybe a few others from Gandalf (or maybe just the Ring of Fire Elemental Command & Staff of the Magi/Power). Polymorph Other from Circe. Prismatic Spray from Mizirian. Magic Missile and Shield from Roger Corman's 'the Raven.' Wall of Force and Disintegration rays from effing science fiction. ESP, Magic Jar, Astral Projection and others from Theosophy. One character in one source doing one supernatural trick once rates a spell in D&D. Heroes in genre do things that normal people IRL can't. Doubly so in myth & legend. D&D doesn't do a good job of modeling such things. Mizirian the Magician, uses The Excellent Prismatic Spray in one scene in one short story, and Prismatic Spray makes it into the D&D wizard's repertoire. One character in one relatively obscure story uses one supernatural power once, and it justifies adding a 7th level spell to the game. That's one standard. Fergus mac Roth punches the top off a mountain, then he does it again. He's not even a demi-god or anything, nor is he the only guy in Celtic mythology to do that sort of thing. Beowulf tears a monster's arm off with his bare hands. Count Brass literally takes a massive bull by the horns and forces it to it's knees. Multiple archetypal characters displaying a superhuman, but not supernatural ability, but in most editions of D&D, fighters can't even make particularly effective unarmed attacks thanks to niche-protection for the Monk. That's the other standard. [/QUOTE]

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