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So what's exactly wrong with the fighter?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ashkelon" data-source="post: 6664802" data-attributes="member: 6774887"><p>When a fight has a lot of little enemies, it is better to save your dice and let the spellcasters AoE them down. The fighter excels at single target damage, but is rather lackluster when it comes to mobs of enemies. No point wasting superiority dice on weaker monsters. As I said, optimal use of dice mean you use it on a nova round to demolish a significant threat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We had no rogue in our group, which mean commanders strike is useless (you trade your attack, your bonus action attack, and your ally's potential reaction attack all for just 1 attack). Tripping attack and sweep attack provide very little damage or utility compared to precise, menacing, and riposte. </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, I could play backup. Woohoo. Fighter, the great backup player. Never gets to shine and is only there to help others when they roll poorly (assuming both that multiple attempts are allowed and that I can roll high).</p><p></p><p> Disadvantage on stealth meant no scouting for me. Well, that and the lack of darkvision. Our valor bard had better Athletics and Stealth than me anyway, so best I could do is play support. I was never the top choice for overcoming physical challenges.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What are you talking about. That had nothing to do with encounter design. The fighter simply lacks agency to control the battlefield in 5e in ways other than dealing or absorbing damage. It had nothing to do with encounter design. The casters were all able to control the battlefield very effectively with walls, darkness, AoE, and zone effects. They could also disable enemies with spells like hideous laughter and hold person.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because their actions were better spent contributing to combat than spent wasting rounds trying to buff me so I could somehow get into range. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Those maneuvers were not mechanically as potent as the first 3 I gained (menacing, precise, and riposte). Those maneuvers were not even as mechanically potent as 1st level spells. So while the wizard has a clear progression of capability (charm => suggestion => dominate, burning hands => fireball = meteor swarm, etc), the fighter gains the maneuvers you as a player care about least.</p><p></p><p>When we are fighting powerful monsters from myth and legend, the fighter feels like you are still in a low fantasy LotR game. The challenges you face scale with tier, but your capabilities do not. It is the same boring routine at level 13 as it was at level 3.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashkelon, post: 6664802, member: 6774887"] When a fight has a lot of little enemies, it is better to save your dice and let the spellcasters AoE them down. The fighter excels at single target damage, but is rather lackluster when it comes to mobs of enemies. No point wasting superiority dice on weaker monsters. As I said, optimal use of dice mean you use it on a nova round to demolish a significant threat. We had no rogue in our group, which mean commanders strike is useless (you trade your attack, your bonus action attack, and your ally's potential reaction attack all for just 1 attack). Tripping attack and sweep attack provide very little damage or utility compared to precise, menacing, and riposte. Sure, I could play backup. Woohoo. Fighter, the great backup player. Never gets to shine and is only there to help others when they roll poorly (assuming both that multiple attempts are allowed and that I can roll high). Disadvantage on stealth meant no scouting for me. Well, that and the lack of darkvision. Our valor bard had better Athletics and Stealth than me anyway, so best I could do is play support. I was never the top choice for overcoming physical challenges. What are you talking about. That had nothing to do with encounter design. The fighter simply lacks agency to control the battlefield in 5e in ways other than dealing or absorbing damage. It had nothing to do with encounter design. The casters were all able to control the battlefield very effectively with walls, darkness, AoE, and zone effects. They could also disable enemies with spells like hideous laughter and hold person. Because their actions were better spent contributing to combat than spent wasting rounds trying to buff me so I could somehow get into range. Those maneuvers were not mechanically as potent as the first 3 I gained (menacing, precise, and riposte). Those maneuvers were not even as mechanically potent as 1st level spells. So while the wizard has a clear progression of capability (charm => suggestion => dominate, burning hands => fireball = meteor swarm, etc), the fighter gains the maneuvers you as a player care about least. When we are fighting powerful monsters from myth and legend, the fighter feels like you are still in a low fantasy LotR game. The challenges you face scale with tier, but your capabilities do not. It is the same boring routine at level 13 as it was at level 3. [/QUOTE]
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