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<blockquote data-quote="Quajek" data-source="post: 6664813" data-attributes="member: 6776380">You're arguing that some things are &quot;better&quot; or &quot;optimal&quot; but the question of the thread was that Fighters are INCAPABLE.&nbsp; So maybe it's not mechanically optimal for the Fighter to attack four targets with TWF and Action Surge, but it's certainly possible.So your party didn't have one of the main four roles covered, and you yourself couldn't do things you wanted to do because you chose to build your character in such a way that you couldn't do them.&nbsp; The Fighter doesn't just get Disadvantage on Stealth checks and no Darkivision, you had to pick that as what you wanted for your character.&nbsp; It's not the Fighter's fault that you wanted to be a Human in Full Plate instead of an Elf in a Chain Shirt.Fighters can Push, Grapple, Trip, and Disarm.&nbsp; They can throw axes at torches and lanterns to create darkness.&nbsp; The can push over trees and throw boulders. The Fighter in my game the other night Grappled a Wizard that was (to quote the DM) &quot;better than 50% chance of a TPK&quot; and single-handedly ended the combat.&nbsp; My Level 6 Rogue has a Broom of Flying and Slippers of Spider Climb.&nbsp; Why don't you?&nbsp; Why are you limited to walking only at level 13?&nbsp; &nbsp; I can't speak to any of that stuff, as I've never played with a Fighter past level 6.&nbsp; But, the Fighter in my campaign is pretty important to the group, both in and out of combat.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Quajek, post: 6664813, member: 6776380"] You're arguing that some things are "better" or "optimal" but the question of the thread was that Fighters are INCAPABLE. So maybe it's not mechanically optimal for the Fighter to attack four targets with TWF and Action Surge, but it's certainly possible. So your party didn't have one of the main four roles covered, and you yourself couldn't do things you wanted to do because you chose to build your character in such a way that you couldn't do them. The Fighter doesn't just get Disadvantage on Stealth checks and no Darkivision, you had to pick that as what you wanted for your character. It's not the Fighter's fault that you wanted to be a Human in Full Plate instead of an Elf in a Chain Shirt. Fighters can Push, Grapple, Trip, and Disarm. They can throw axes at torches and lanterns to create darkness. The can push over trees and throw boulders. The Fighter in my game the other night Grappled a Wizard that was (to quote the DM) "better than 50% chance of a TPK" and single-handedly ended the combat. My Level 6 Rogue has a Broom of Flying and Slippers of Spider Climb. Why don't you? Why are you limited to walking only at level 13? I can't speak to any of that stuff, as I've never played with a Fighter past level 6. But, the Fighter in my campaign is pretty important to the group, both in and out of combat. [/QUOTE]

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