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<blockquote data-quote="Ashkelon" data-source="post: 6665056" data-attributes="member: 6774887">Let's use math!!!Ok we are level 8, and I have 18 STR (can't have 20 and Lucky at 8 sadly) and I am trained in athletics. The&nbsp; Bard has 16 strength but has expertise in Athletics. The challenge we are faced with is a 50 foot wall with a DC of only 15. To get passed this wall, you need to succeed at 4 athletics checks (half move per check is 15 feet per success). If you fail by 5 or more, you fall. The fighter has +7 to Athletics checks. The bard has +9. The fighter has a 15% chance to fall per roll, the bard has a 5% chance to fall per roll. The bard has a 81% chance to climb to the top without falling. The fighter has a 52% chance to climb to the top without falling before using luck dice. Each time a lick die is used, it would only have a 70% chance of actually helping the fighter as well, meaning the fighter could quite easily use multiple luck dice to attempt to climb this single wall. This isn't even taking into account the other exploration challenges the group may find itself facing. If the fighters moment to shine is against 1wall per day, then you can hardly say he is &quot;good&quot; at physical related tasks. Oh, and since using shield master to knock people prone is kind of the Bards &quot;thing&quot;, he usually has Bears strength cast upon himself (1 hour long buff that doubles his carrying capacity and gives advantage to Strength checks), making him significantly better than the fighter at Athletic related challenges. Of course, the Druid could have flown to the top of the wall and let down a rope, the warlock could have used at-will levitation to get past the wall, both without needing to roll.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashkelon, post: 6665056, member: 6774887"] Let's use math!!! Ok we are level 8, and I have 18 STR (can't have 20 and Lucky at 8 sadly) and I am trained in athletics. The Bard has 16 strength but has expertise in Athletics. The challenge we are faced with is a 50 foot wall with a DC of only 15. To get passed this wall, you need to succeed at 4 athletics checks (half move per check is 15 feet per success). If you fail by 5 or more, you fall. The fighter has +7 to Athletics checks. The bard has +9. The fighter has a 15% chance to fall per roll, the bard has a 5% chance to fall per roll. The bard has a 81% chance to climb to the top without falling. The fighter has a 52% chance to climb to the top without falling before using luck dice. Each time a lick die is used, it would only have a 70% chance of actually helping the fighter as well, meaning the fighter could quite easily use multiple luck dice to attempt to climb this single wall. This isn't even taking into account the other exploration challenges the group may find itself facing. If the fighters moment to shine is against 1wall per day, then you can hardly say he is "good" at physical related tasks. Oh, and since using shield master to knock people prone is kind of the Bards "thing", he usually has Bears strength cast upon himself (1 hour long buff that doubles his carrying capacity and gives advantage to Strength checks), making him significantly better than the fighter at Athletic related challenges. Of course, the Druid could have flown to the top of the wall and let down a rope, the warlock could have used at-will levitation to get past the wall, both without needing to roll. [/QUOTE]

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