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<blockquote data-quote="Ashkelon" data-source="post: 6665436" data-attributes="member: 6774887">And of course, let us not forget that at level 9 the Bard has +11 Athletics to the fighters +8, narrowing the advantage that the lucky reroll gives. Also, let us not forget that lucky is 3 times per day only. And as Hemlock would have us believe, the fighter would need to use the feat all 3 times outside of combat in order to make the fighter decent in non-combat situations. Also, the situation Hemlock proposed is a combat situation, which really has nothing to do with the non-combat potential of the fighter, so isn't actually relevant to the discussion at all.Also, it is important to remember that the bard has Bull's Strength cast upon himself which gives him advantage to every strength check he makes (aka permanently lucky for Strength rolls). Making the bard more desirable in the situation Hemlock proposed anyway. Finally, we must also realize that there are a number of ways to prevent such a situation above and beyond simple athletics checks. For one, only stupid PCs fight near the edge of cliffs. It's s very simple rule to not stand near the edge of a cliff. For another, you can break a grapple with forced movement. A warlock with repelling blast for example can do wonders for this, though many spells can do the trick here. Also, players who can fly (air elementals are pretty fun for the Druid). Also spells that incapacitate enemies are very useful against flying creatures. The bard has used hideous laughter to cause enemies to literally die from laughter as they plummet to their deaths.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashkelon, post: 6665436, member: 6774887"] And of course, let us not forget that at level 9 the Bard has +11 Athletics to the fighters +8, narrowing the advantage that the lucky reroll gives. Also, let us not forget that lucky is 3 times per day only. And as Hemlock would have us believe, the fighter would need to use the feat all 3 times outside of combat in order to make the fighter decent in non-combat situations. Also, the situation Hemlock proposed is a combat situation, which really has nothing to do with the non-combat potential of the fighter, so isn't actually relevant to the discussion at all. Also, it is important to remember that the bard has Bull's Strength cast upon himself which gives him advantage to every strength check he makes (aka permanently lucky for Strength rolls). Making the bard more desirable in the situation Hemlock proposed anyway. Finally, we must also realize that there are a number of ways to prevent such a situation above and beyond simple athletics checks. For one, only stupid PCs fight near the edge of cliffs. It's s very simple rule to not stand near the edge of a cliff. For another, you can break a grapple with forced movement. A warlock with repelling blast for example can do wonders for this, though many spells can do the trick here. Also, players who can fly (air elementals are pretty fun for the Druid). Also spells that incapacitate enemies are very useful against flying creatures. The bard has used hideous laughter to cause enemies to literally die from laughter as they plummet to their deaths. [/QUOTE]

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