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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6666076" data-attributes="member: 6696971">left out "not" in the first sentence...it's rather key!Accepting that there is really no reason for the 4e Fighter (and all classes) to not have 4 Trained Skills instead of 3 Trained Skills, just a couple things right quick on this that are absolutely of paramount importance when trying to compare a 4e Fighter PC's noncombat acumen to 5e:1)  4e is governed by noncombat conflict resolution mechanics where 5e is governed by its task resolution (where it isn't governed by fiat via spellcasting/feature).  The Skill Challenge is THE utter game-changer for the paradigm of noncombat acumen across PCs.  The ability to express your PC's protagonism is as much a product of 4e's noncombat resolution framework, its play procedures, and its math as it is the PC build mechanics.  Noncombat tropes are no longer dominated/governed by spell loadout and win button nuclear options via those spells.  This paradigm-shift alone pushes noncombat action resolution toward parity more than anything else.2)  The primary Group Checks are Athletics, Endurance, Stealth, Perception.  Half of those are anchored by the Fighter's efficacy with Perception typically being a skill the fighter is more than functional at.  Group Checks made their way to 5e so this is also a part of the 5e Fighter's noncombat portfolio that is also given short shrift.  However, Group Checks in 4e also interface with (1) above.3)  Extra-class resources (Race, Background, Theme at the Heroic Tier alone will typically grant a + 2 to 5 different Skills) broaden or focus proficiency.  Investment in a multi-class feat (granting a Trained Skill +) is SOP (as it is always worth it), JoAT entrance isn't much (the entrance grants + 1 to a large number of skills and the + 2 to all UT Skills is a huge bonus...possibly the most popular feat in my game), and Skill Powers are fantastic (especially stuff like Mighty Sprint with combat application, [ii] stunting application, and [iii] Skill Challenge application).4)  The Stunting/Terrain Power, Hazard, Challenging Terrain, and Trap systems play deeply into Athletics and Endurance as either Skill Activators or Countermeasures.5)  Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies (especially) do most of the load-bearing for the mythic (Beowulf, Hercules, et al) archetype.  Also see (1) above as Epic Tier SCs should be framing Fighters into those sorts of conflicts where they are opposed by adversity that requires (hence allows) them to perform those mythical feats of strength and mettle that you mention.</blockquote>

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