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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 3737165" data-attributes="member: 4134">The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's just like combat. You're not wordlessly rolling a d20 in combat. You state where you go and what you do. Then you roll the d20 to resolve it, and the result is announced and usually "acted out".If you're smart, you can get some bonus out of it, like when you try to gain the higher ground, or flank him, or get cover. You can incorporate that into your description of your actions. But of course, the description alone won't determine whether you hit or not, even if you specify that you try to stick the sword into the vulnerable spot below the armpit.It's the same for social situations: You say what your character is going to say, and then roll your dice to resolve it. If your performance was good (made the effort to talk in character, tried to find his "weak spot", and so on), you're going to get some bonus (DM's discretion, but that's the case most of the time), but the roll, representing your character's abilities rather than your own, will ultimately determine whether you succeed or not.And remember that not everything needs to be rolled. You can order a beer at the bar without rolling diplomacy, just like you can tie your shoelaces without rolling use rope.You let the clumsy, weak, flabby guys play mighty warriors who can slay dragons and go toe to toe with demons and all that, don't you?He doesn't. He just can't expect to be able to solve (m) any of the more difficult social challenges with that character. And if he's outgoing and wants to play an outgoing character who solves problems by talking, why does he play a barbarian (probably with low cha and no ranks in diplomacy)?And players should be punished for their own real-life weaknesses?And what are we going to do about those weight-lifters who play D&D? The black belts and GSG commandos?Do you want to punish the not-too-social players, and reward silver-tongued power gamers by ignoring one half of the ability scores and probably more than half of the skills?</blockquote>

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