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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 9293281" data-attributes="member: 29398">This assumes, to continue the analogy, that the players/PCs know how long the "race" even is.They've most likely got no idea going in whether the person they're talking to is already disposed toward agreeing with them and all they have to do is not piss him off, or whether he's neutrally-inclined and thus open to persuasion or bribery or flattery or whatever, or whether he's not going to give an inch until-unless literally put to the sword.And thus, giving them "visible finish lines" amounts to providing the players with information the characters wouldn't know; which in my books is a big DM no-no.That said, ideally the DM is roleplaying the NPC well enough to give a good idea (whether accurate or not!) as to how well or not-well the PCs are doing in their attempts to persuade, as the conversation goes along.Only a few of these have come up in games I've run or played in:Legal proceedings and court cases: relatively often.  Done through roleplay (and occasional shenanigans), with the roleplay covering the key moments rather than every word of every long droning presentation. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Trying to break a cult...: rare but it's happened.  Done through roleplay.Working through intermediaries and proxies...: all the time.  Roleplayed every time.Convincing enemies to switch sides: uncommon but by no means unheard of.  Done through roleplay spiced with occasional morale-like checks.So you're suggesting that this all be optional, and clearly flagged as such?  OK, that's far more acceptable. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I've been going on the assumption these social rules were intended to be baked into the core game.</blockquote>

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