Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="mrglove" data-source="post: 1205077" data-attributes="member: 15094">High ability and skill scores give bonuses, but "anyone can do it"?  Then why in the world would someone who has the gift of the silver tongue because he spent the last seven years in theatre or for some other reason can woo the crown off a king ever want to invest any skill ranks or choose anything but the lowest ability score on charisma or charisma-based skillls if they know that they will never need them to succeed?  For that matter, why would anyone who can't talk the scales off a dragon based on their own skills at smooth-talking ever want to put any skill ranks or higher ability scores on charisma or charisma-based skills if they know that they can't convince anyone to do anything except by the player's skills, not the PC's skills?You said, "Stats and skills are for things that can't be done by the player."  What if the player can't think up convincing arguments off the top of his head without thinking about it for a couple minutes, despite having a character with a 17 CHA and a maxed out diplomacy skill?  What if the player really gets into role-playing his characters, but doesn't have the understanding of science and math that you may have, and so can't figure out problems that his character with a 16 INT or higher should be able to?  I would say that those things can't be done by the player any more than the player could draw a sword and fight a trained warrior to the death (and win).  And when you start deciding for yourself what someone should be able to do themselves, you start forcing players who can't fast-talk anybody and who aren't good at logic puzzles to play characters who are just like them - socially inept and stupid meat shields who just swing swords and axes because that's the only thing that you'll allow them to be good at that the player who plays them isn't good at.  Role Playing Games should allow players to play as characters that are not anything like them, and saying "you must be able to do this or that in real life if you want to be able to do that as your PC" just sets limits, and RPGs, I feel, is about breaking limits and exploring new ideas.Depending on solving a puzzle by rolling your intelligence probably isn't a good idea.  But, if someone is having trouble, rolling their intelligence may provide them with a hint of some kind, maybe a clue as to which direction to be thinking in.  Maybe they might remember a puzzle that they know the solution to that is similar; the answer is not the same, but maybe the type of puzzle is, or some aspect of the puzzle seems similar. A puzzle based on colors and patterns may remind them of another in which the colors represented syllables or sounds or speech of some sort, and may clue them in on what kind of answer they need to give.  It wouldn't give them the answer, but it would perhaps get them to realize that they needed to make the correct sounds in the correct order in order to solve the puzzle.Likewise, you could maybe give hints on how to approach NPCs in conversation.  If the NPC is a married woman of moderate wealth, maybe the PC could notice that she is wearing a wedding ring of some appropriate value, maybe a gold band.  An NPC married woman of little wealth but married to a craftsman might have something like a ring made of wood, but ornately designed.  A PC could perhaps know that a certain type of noble of such and such a clan and society will probably be interested in how to advance his or her clan's standings in their society more than his or her personal standing among their own clan.  Or maybe people of this society values actions rather than words.  All of these things could give the PC (and the player) an idea on what to say or do to win the NPC's trust, or whatever.</blockquote>

Verification