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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cybern" data-source="post: 1066417" data-attributes="member: 13147">Aha!  The 100 CAN$ Question!We had that problem since we started playing something else than AD&D2e (thac0 WAS simple!), and we still can't deal with all theses cases.I had a player in a VTM game who never gave some thoughts to his social skills/stats, but would almost make you do in your pants when he did his roleplay and tried to intimidate someone.  The GM often felt bad when the player got angry when he was told that his crappy Intimidate roll (2, 4) wasn't good enough to scare the lone defenseless kid.  When we asked him if, in his background, his character often intimidated people, he said all the time.  So whenever this guy creates a character, we force him to put some ranks/skill points/etc in intimidate, or suffer the consequences.  We also have a player who roleplays exceptionnally well, but gets mad when we tell him that his 9 Cha dwarf can't "just roleplay" his diplomacy.  He too, with time, bought social skills for all his characters so that he could use his natural social skills in game.With 3.X, we let the character roleplay his social skill, and, based on what he said, assign a +2/-2 (per the PHB) conditionnal modifiers to his roll.  When he rolls crap (or real good), the DM often retell what the character said in the way it sounded according to the roll (more/less scary/convincing/kind).  Worked out well enough for us.  Some players even roll before they RP, so they can adjust their RP accordingly.The real problem with social skills IMC comes from PCs who wants to convince/intimidate/bluff other PCs.  I think I saw in the PHB or DMG that a player can decide if he's convinced/intimidated/etc, while it makes social skills useless versus players.  We often argue (in-game) about party decisions, and some players get mad at the social character who convinced their PC with a roll.  The can't get it that leaders aren't always brain or muscle, but often social guys.IMC, I really don't have patience for players who cry when their Sense Motive roll is too low, and they never got a rank in it.  In your games, do people often put cc ranks in social skills (sense motive included) to reflect their roleplay, or adjust their roleplay to their stats ?I even tend to penalized (rolplay award xp) players who don't RP remotely their Cha (en Int and Wis, to some extent).  I can't take another 18 Cha Pal who "just looks good, but acts like Squall" (from FF 8).  "Whatever" ain't a diplomacy sentence, in my book.</blockquote>

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