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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cybern" data-source="post: 1066773" data-attributes="member: 13147">I agree that a mix of roll and role is the way to go, but when that ugly dwarf who smells like a toilet bowl starts to explain to peasants how he and his friend are just here to help and will take care of the kobold problem without asking for anything in return, and gets irked (sp?) when I ask him to roll.  Let's say I gave him a +2 for good roleplaying, and he rolls a 4 (3 -1 cha +2 situation), and I tell him that they aren't listening to him, since the smell alone disgust them, and they can't quite get the dwarven accent and he spoke too fast, he starts arguing about how good his speech was.I do, however, LOVE to play low cha characters.  I have a LG, 6 cha dwarf, and I try to put insults in all my sentences.  "This guy's good beef, even smells like one!" is actually a praise, and "You cutie piggy" is his way of telling a girl that he likes her.  Of course he doesn't lie, so bluff ain't a problem.IMC, one player played an intelligent tiefling who almost got beaten (by other PCs) for using his darkness power when they got in a fight.  She argued that since she had that power, she could use it, while others told her they'd hang her next time.  I told her how she could have played her high int (17) and use it to block (so to speak) one front, or to cast it on the end of a rope and swing it in circles so the darkness moved and hindered mostly ennemies.  All I got was a "I'm not 17 int, so you give me these ideas before the fight, and I'll use them".  "Ok then, but you won't get XP for the clever trick, you know!"... "Why? My char did it"  and so on.For the "Squall" paladin, the problems doesn't concern paladins (don't wanna be flamed), but the difference between Cha and Comeliness (or appearance in other RPGs).  This player (the same than the tiefling) wanted to play an antisocial, top-model, over sure of himself paladin.  In the end we let her do it, but asked her to play like the Cha 18 that she rolled up.  Then she hit us with her "I don't HAVE to play my cha ALL the time".  The DM once asked her to described how she turned undeads, and she said something about holding her holy symbol.  He asked her if her Pal said anything, and she said "Whatever" (remember Squall?).  She got mad when he said that nothing happened, and that the ghouls came on in spite of the Holy Whatever.I know Cha (and social skills, to some extent) is many "stats" in one, Appearance, Likedness, Self-Confidence, Manipulation, Poise, Attitude and others, but you can't just take one and forget the others.  For example,  you could say the guy is overconfident, and doesn't have stage-fright, but how is that guy supposed to sing better, tell better lies, get the giants to like him (...) better than the guy who lacks confidence but his funny and friendly and and and ...</blockquote>

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