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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SpiderMonkey" data-source="post: 5802200" data-attributes="member: 11385">I've recently given up on the idea of skills (as consistent and level-dependent character-specific bits) entirely in class-based games. While that's a topic for another time, I believe it's doubly so for social skills.There was an analogy that Monte used in the transcripts about social skills that sounds kinda like common-sense at first, but I think falls apart upon closer scrutiny. It was something along the lines of "we don't expect players to come to the table knowing how to use a sword, so why do expect that of social skills?"I think this kind of analogy is possible because we conflate charisma with roleplaying generally, and with talking in character among other things.Take my friend Casey. IRL he's a smart guy, but he's introverted. He also hates talking in character. Let's take a typical fast talk scenario. He's playing a character who needs to bluff his way past some guards. Now IRL, Casey couldn't probably do this very easily. Rather, a more jocular person like my buddy Brandon could: he's quick on his feet, he's good with proxemics, body language, eye contact, identifying his target audience and adjusting his lexical register to maximize their comfort. He doesn't do this purposefully; it just comes naturally. He's the kind of guy who makes you feel at ease and open. No plan--just natural charisma.So, Casey doesn't want to talk in character. It makes him uncomfortable. instead of talking in character, he tells the DM he wants to bluff his way past the guards. He tells him, "I'll do all that stuff that chatty people do, and as I chat them up, I'll weave in a story about how [whatever the outline of the bluff is]."Casey doesn't have to be charismatic to play the bluffer any more than he needs to know how to wield a sword. He just has to have a plan. A straight reaction roll and/or a good outline of the plan should suffice.The problem with social skills as level-dependent character-specific bits is that they keep going up, right? So what your first level bluffer was capable of doing is insignificant compared to what your 15th level bluffer is capable of. It quickly can get beyond reason: "I, uh, tell the entire constabulary that this is not the Duke's head I'm holding, but is instead a movie prop. Uh, 'I am not the droid you're looking for'." At some point, given what he's accomplished in the past, he *has* to be able to do it because his numbers are higher.This might be a bit hyperbolic, but it's indicative of a system of constant improvement.We had a PC in a game who through synergizing various skills wound up with a ludicrous Diplomacy score. It got so laughable that we began quoting a line from Kung Pow when he used it: "I implore you to reconsider." "Okay!"</blockquote>

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