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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mark CMG" data-source="post: 5808857" data-attributes="member: 10479">Naw, using an extreme to prove your point doesn't actually prove your point since a roleplaying game has aspects of both roleplaying and gaming.  However, what you are suggesting is removing some of the roleplaying aspects in favor of the player gaining knowledge directly from the way in which the dice fall.  You feel that a GM is, by design, simply not up to the task of conveying the information the player will need in any situation and that the player should have the metaknowledge of the dice results to guide the in-game decisions of the character.  Odd, though, that you want to trust players to act as if they don't have knowledge that they clearly will have while not tursting a GM to simply do the job of a GM and convey information that he clearly wants the players to have for the game to move forward.  If a player doesn't feel he has enough information, he (through his character) investigates further and finds out more.  As to knowing or not knowing why or even IF someone has failed at a task, it's the purview of the GM to make sure the player knows as much as the character should know, and not any more than that if possible which is the whole point you are actually arguing against.But let's explore this "style issue" claim and the "get on with the game" attitude you sometimes put forth in conjunction with it.  Try to help me wrap my head around your frustration with one of the traditional aspects of roleplaying games and your desire to jettison it, as well as helping me understand what constitutes roleplaying in your eyes and what roleplaying you wish to include to replace what you wish to eject.  Because, honestly, I'm seeing a number of folks speaking in similar terms over the years but they tend to conflate their terms.  They also tend to want to replace roleplaying aspects with other game aspects (like rolling dice), which is all well and good for the sake of gaming (though not for roleplay gaming) and having fun, but at some point when you've removed much, most, or all of the roleplaying, isn't it just a good idea to not call it a roleplaying game anymore?  Don't get me wrong, I have fun with many styles of gameplay, I just tend to use rules that focus prmarily on the style of gameplay I am interested in exploring at that time.  So, tell me more about this frustration you feel with having a GM be your conduit to an RPG setting versus getting on with it and preferring that the dice be what gives you your information on how to make your next move in the game you're calling a roleplaying game.</blockquote>

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