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Social Skills, starting to bug me.
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<blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 5810918" data-attributes="member: 3887"><p>You need to simulate speech less than the examples I listed (actual combat to the death, real live magic spell casting, working iron)!</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not going to knock all the clever design work that's been done over last four decades. But newer designs offer new alternatives, not objectively better ones. RPG development isn't analogous to something like, say, computing. </p><p></p><p>OD&D/AD&D-style "players solve the puzzles/speak the words themselves" approach works as well today as it did in the 1970s. Obviously, the reliance on a good DM is a drawback. But any approach will have its drawbacks. </p><p></p><p></p><p>For the record, I should reiterate I'm all for <em>having</em> social mechanics. I just turn them off when not needed. </p><p></p><p></p><p>No it's not. Preferring to "talk things out" does not imply bogging the game down with a lot of inconsequential, boring conversions. You're conflating free-form social encounters with pacing problems. For some reason... </p><p></p><p></p><p>So it's important for a DM to know their group, have a handle on pacing, and, most importantly, have non-boring friends capable of amusing speech. </p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not my idea of fun, either. Why do you keep confusing a preference for light-to-no social encounter mechanics with gross pacing issues...</p><p></p><p></p><p>... and terrible encounter design? </p><p></p><p></p><p>Hus, you've never seen a D&D player who's been bad with the rules/mechanics? I've seen quite a few. They aren't exactly unicorn-rare.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And this neatly sums up the bias that runs through every thread on social mechanics. "Gamers have more logical-mathematical intelligence than linguistic/interpersonal intelligence. We're more Aspie than suave!". </p><p></p><p>Despite playing a highly social game that literally cannot be played without some form of (constant) conversation. I could just as easily say --like I already have-- D&D is very social game, played in groups, in a state of constant communication, therefore, D&D players should be pretty good at talking. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The resolution mechanics themselves aren't complicated. But in games like 3e/Pathfinder, the real challenge/game is in scouring the rules for ways to boost your social skills. This can be somewhat... involved.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Excellent point. Nothing gives me the sense of "being" a PC like speaking their words, or do a lesser extent, solving some kind of puzzle by hand. </p><p></p><p></p><p>In a game like AD&D, there's nothing preventing a CHA 8 PC from being a smooth talker. A CHA 8 of grants no reaction bonus or penalty (however the PC can't have many loyal henchmen). How the PC comes across depends entirely on what the player says in character. This is the very heart of soul of role-playing, as far as I'm concerned. Role-playing is what you do in character during live play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mallus, post: 5810918, member: 3887"] You need to simulate speech less than the examples I listed (actual combat to the death, real live magic spell casting, working iron)! I'm not going to knock all the clever design work that's been done over last four decades. But newer designs offer new alternatives, not objectively better ones. RPG development isn't analogous to something like, say, computing. OD&D/AD&D-style "players solve the puzzles/speak the words themselves" approach works as well today as it did in the 1970s. Obviously, the reliance on a good DM is a drawback. But any approach will have its drawbacks. For the record, I should reiterate I'm all for [i]having[/i] social mechanics. I just turn them off when not needed. No it's not. Preferring to "talk things out" does not imply bogging the game down with a lot of inconsequential, boring conversions. You're conflating free-form social encounters with pacing problems. For some reason... So it's important for a DM to know their group, have a handle on pacing, and, most importantly, have non-boring friends capable of amusing speech. It's not my idea of fun, either. Why do you keep confusing a preference for light-to-no social encounter mechanics with gross pacing issues... ... and terrible encounter design? Hus, you've never seen a D&D player who's been bad with the rules/mechanics? I've seen quite a few. They aren't exactly unicorn-rare. And this neatly sums up the bias that runs through every thread on social mechanics. "Gamers have more logical-mathematical intelligence than linguistic/interpersonal intelligence. We're more Aspie than suave!". Despite playing a highly social game that literally cannot be played without some form of (constant) conversation. I could just as easily say --like I already have-- D&D is very social game, played in groups, in a state of constant communication, therefore, D&D players should be pretty good at talking. The resolution mechanics themselves aren't complicated. But in games like 3e/Pathfinder, the real challenge/game is in scouring the rules for ways to boost your social skills. This can be somewhat... involved. Excellent point. Nothing gives me the sense of "being" a PC like speaking their words, or do a lesser extent, solving some kind of puzzle by hand. In a game like AD&D, there's nothing preventing a CHA 8 PC from being a smooth talker. A CHA 8 of grants no reaction bonus or penalty (however the PC can't have many loyal henchmen). How the PC comes across depends entirely on what the player says in character. This is the very heart of soul of role-playing, as far as I'm concerned. Role-playing is what you do in character during live play. [/QUOTE]
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