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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7487985" data-attributes="member: 6919838">When want to play a game about player wits - there are plenty to choose from and we do a lot. chess, Go, frag, munchkin, backgammon etc etc etc etc where all the pieces are the same and its players that matter. Sometimes these are even cooperative ones - common goals against a timer or random stop.When we play a role playing game, its about the role playing and the challenges and there we try and make sure the mechanics emphasize and resolve around the character. i dont let the strong player who works out have his character lift more than the mechanics we agreed on say he should... i dont let the runner who does marathons have his character outpace or outlast others more than the character stats and mechanics we agreed on say we should.When we have seen games where just as you say the smooth talking player can get more done socially whether his character is good at that or not, we have seen quite a few cases of this not leading to good outcomes as far as that &quot;role playing&quot; part that we love. it has also resulted in over time undervaluing those attributes and skills - resulting in the chargen being about the other things.So, all in all, if we are to have some degree of integrity in the agreements we made to play by, those mechanics we agreed to play with, we have found it better if their weight is at least attemtped or desired to be treated equally and no particular subset being relegated to &quot;just player your way thru that&quot;.it has served us better, so far as we can tell. if i were going to run a game where that wasn't true, i would just drop the cha stats and skills altogether and leave that as &quot;this part of the game will be player side only&quot; (alternate costs rarely tends to balance out IMX)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7487985, member: 6919838"] When want to play a game about player wits - there are plenty to choose from and we do a lot. chess, Go, frag, munchkin, backgammon etc etc etc etc where all the pieces are the same and its players that matter. Sometimes these are even cooperative ones - common goals against a timer or random stop. When we play a role playing game, its about the role playing and the challenges and there we try and make sure the mechanics emphasize and resolve around the character. i dont let the strong player who works out have his character lift more than the mechanics we agreed on say he should... i dont let the runner who does marathons have his character outpace or outlast others more than the character stats and mechanics we agreed on say we should. When we have seen games where just as you say the smooth talking player can get more done socially whether his character is good at that or not, we have seen quite a few cases of this not leading to good outcomes as far as that "role playing" part that we love. it has also resulted in over time undervaluing those attributes and skills - resulting in the chargen being about the other things. So, all in all, if we are to have some degree of integrity in the agreements we made to play by, those mechanics we agreed to play with, we have found it better if their weight is at least attemtped or desired to be treated equally and no particular subset being relegated to "just player your way thru that". it has served us better, so far as we can tell. if i were going to run a game where that wasn't true, i would just drop the cha stats and skills altogether and leave that as "this part of the game will be player side only" (alternate costs rarely tends to balance out IMX) [/QUOTE]

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