Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Sociology of the murderhobo
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6910858" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>In my experience, true 'murderhobo' behavior is fairly rare. As often as you do see it, you also see a player who is constitutionally unable to play as anything but a virtuous self-sacrificing soul, devoted to the cause of good and paying careful attention to the consequences of their action.</p><p></p><p>Both extremes are rare. But what you do see all the time, and as the majority behavior, that often ends up amounting to much the same thing in the long run, is the idea that it's never worth making any sort of sacrifice or taking any sort of risk for an NPC - except perhaps for a few loyal retainers who can be treated much like possessions (and even then, only in the same way that they'd take a risk for treasure and possessions). These players play their PC's in a heroic stance, but they will only do "good" if it doesn't cost them much. As long as good is profitable, rewarding, and gets them what they want, they are willing and even eager to play the hero. </p><p></p><p>But the moment it begins to cost them to be good, and they have to risk their own interests to advance some good cause...</p><p>The moment it becomes troublesome to be merciful....</p><p>The moment it puts them at risk of loss to be courageous on behalf of others....</p><p>The moment that they have to be patient with others mistakes....</p><p>The moment showing compassion really means a sacrifice....</p><p>The moment that forbearance might mean losing something they want...</p><p></p><p>At that moment the knives come out, and its the PC's for the PC's. </p><p></p><p>The dominate alignment I observe in PC's is Chaotic Neutral. They aren't actively bad. They'll even passively oppose evil, in that if you put evil in their way they'll prefer to fight it than good. But they are basically in it for themselves. They'll do good because doing good makes them feel good about themselves, but only if doing good doesn't cost them something more tangible. Some PC's will have more good tendencies than bad, and some the reverse but they are largely CN. Parties will tend to cluster around that alignment with a smattering of Neutral, Chaotic Good, and Chaotic Evil. Sometimes you have that one guy in the party who is an outlier - NG or LG - and if you do, he tends to be picked on as naïve, simple, and not "getting it". </p><p></p><p>More than "good" what I find players hate is "duty". Players hate having obligations. </p><p></p><p>At tables where true murderhoboes are the norm, what I tend to find is that "the GM is Satan." That is to say, in that GM's world he is effectively a malevolent force that always turns everything against the PC's. Whatever the PC's do, the circumstances always perversely turn against them. Everyone in the GM's world is inherently treacherous. A mook, if spared, will ALWAYS suicidally avenge himself on the group that had mercy on him, even if he knows he has no chance of winning, merely to be minor thorn in their side. Ever NPC always is stabbing the PC's from Hell's pit. No good deed goes unpunished in a very literal way. In these circumstances, murderhoboes become murderhoboes out of essential self-preservation.</p><p></p><p>For me, the hardest thing I can do is trying to incorporate players from tables like that, trained as they are to see me as the Adversary and the world as illogically brutal and treacherous. There own expectations become a self-fulfilling prophesy, because their own ruthless treachery becomes the lens through which everyone else in the game world sees them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6910858, member: 4937"] In my experience, true 'murderhobo' behavior is fairly rare. As often as you do see it, you also see a player who is constitutionally unable to play as anything but a virtuous self-sacrificing soul, devoted to the cause of good and paying careful attention to the consequences of their action. Both extremes are rare. But what you do see all the time, and as the majority behavior, that often ends up amounting to much the same thing in the long run, is the idea that it's never worth making any sort of sacrifice or taking any sort of risk for an NPC - except perhaps for a few loyal retainers who can be treated much like possessions (and even then, only in the same way that they'd take a risk for treasure and possessions). These players play their PC's in a heroic stance, but they will only do "good" if it doesn't cost them much. As long as good is profitable, rewarding, and gets them what they want, they are willing and even eager to play the hero. But the moment it begins to cost them to be good, and they have to risk their own interests to advance some good cause... The moment it becomes troublesome to be merciful.... The moment it puts them at risk of loss to be courageous on behalf of others.... The moment that they have to be patient with others mistakes.... The moment showing compassion really means a sacrifice.... The moment that forbearance might mean losing something they want... At that moment the knives come out, and its the PC's for the PC's. The dominate alignment I observe in PC's is Chaotic Neutral. They aren't actively bad. They'll even passively oppose evil, in that if you put evil in their way they'll prefer to fight it than good. But they are basically in it for themselves. They'll do good because doing good makes them feel good about themselves, but only if doing good doesn't cost them something more tangible. Some PC's will have more good tendencies than bad, and some the reverse but they are largely CN. Parties will tend to cluster around that alignment with a smattering of Neutral, Chaotic Good, and Chaotic Evil. Sometimes you have that one guy in the party who is an outlier - NG or LG - and if you do, he tends to be picked on as naïve, simple, and not "getting it". More than "good" what I find players hate is "duty". Players hate having obligations. At tables where true murderhoboes are the norm, what I tend to find is that "the GM is Satan." That is to say, in that GM's world he is effectively a malevolent force that always turns everything against the PC's. Whatever the PC's do, the circumstances always perversely turn against them. Everyone in the GM's world is inherently treacherous. A mook, if spared, will ALWAYS suicidally avenge himself on the group that had mercy on him, even if he knows he has no chance of winning, merely to be minor thorn in their side. Ever NPC always is stabbing the PC's from Hell's pit. No good deed goes unpunished in a very literal way. In these circumstances, murderhoboes become murderhoboes out of essential self-preservation. For me, the hardest thing I can do is trying to incorporate players from tables like that, trained as they are to see me as the Adversary and the world as illogically brutal and treacherous. There own expectations become a self-fulfilling prophesy, because their own ruthless treachery becomes the lens through which everyone else in the game world sees them. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Sociology of the murderhobo
Top