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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WheresMyD20" data-source="post: 5816039" data-attributes="member: 60772">Save-or-die doesn't automatically mean super-lethal.  Save-or-die worked fairly well in the classic editions because saving throws were static numbers.  Save-or-die most often occurred with high level spells.  High level spells are found in high level games.  High level PCs rarely failed their saving throws.3e changed the math on this by having high level spells harder to resist than low level spells, adding the caster's ability bonus to the save DC, and allowing casters to pump their save DCs with feats.4e side-stepped the issue by getting rid of most save-or-die type effects, but in the process, it ended up making high level magic too similar to low level magic, just with bigger numbers.Both the classic method and the 4e method work, but they both have drawbacks.  The classic method provides a clear difference in the style of high level and low level play, but it doesn't take into account the power of the attacker.  The 4e method takes into account the attacker's power, but it makes high level and low level play seem similar.I doubt one can squeeze both methods into a game system without breaking the math like 3e did.  I think the design team will have to pick one method and stick with it.</blockquote>