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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5817225" data-attributes="member: 957">You said:&quot;&quot;Okay, the woman lowers her hood... it's a medusa! How many of you had your eyes open? All of you? Okay, new character time&quot;&quot;Do you claim anyone plays this way or do you agree that this is not an accurate representation?First, if you dig around you will find that on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS I have advocated that a WILL save is much more appropriate than Fort saves.&nbsp; The idea of a FORT save in this case is certainly the implication of the effect being encountered and overcome.&nbsp; THAT SUCKS.&nbsp; I agree with you that *specifically* using a FORT save and then describing a character overcoming the look is every bit as wrong as any other option I've complained about.&nbsp; If I advocated THAT I'd be dead in the water.But you have erred in leaping from that to &quot;everyone with your eyes open turn in your character sheets&quot;.&nbsp; First, because it ABSOLUTELY is a misrepresentation of how anyone actually plays.More importantly because game mechanics MAY fit perfectly well with the myth and game mechanics may suck at capturing the myth.&nbsp; In the myth Perseus knew he didn't want to look and made an effort to not look.&nbsp; He was successful.&nbsp; He MIGHT have failed.&nbsp; But he was successful.&nbsp; A save is a perfectly valid way of modeling this situation and, if the players at the table value the narrative, a save can always be described as &quot;you managed to not look&quot;.&nbsp; Again, I'm all for using a WILL save instead.&nbsp; But it certainly isn't hard to rationalize why a FORT save would work in a way that fits &quot;you didn't look&quot; rather than &quot;you overcame it&quot;.In my game you get a save.In my game the myth trumps &quot;game play&quot; and if you look you turn to stone.&nbsp; End of discussion there.&nbsp; If you look you turn to stone.&nbsp; The save determines if you look.&nbsp; And, yes, there may be circumstances in which there is no save allowed.&nbsp; I don't recall anyone ever not actually getting a save in real play, but I can imagine it happening.Myth trumps game play.If you look you turn to stone.Simple.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5817225, member: 957"] You said: ""Okay, the woman lowers her hood... it's a medusa! How many of you had your eyes open? All of you? Okay, new character time"" Do you claim anyone plays this way or do you agree that this is not an accurate representation? First, if you dig around you will find that on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS I have advocated that a WILL save is much more appropriate than Fort saves. The idea of a FORT save in this case is certainly the implication of the effect being encountered and overcome. THAT SUCKS. I agree with you that *specifically* using a FORT save and then describing a character overcoming the look is every bit as wrong as any other option I've complained about. If I advocated THAT I'd be dead in the water. But you have erred in leaping from that to "everyone with your eyes open turn in your character sheets". First, because it ABSOLUTELY is a misrepresentation of how anyone actually plays. More importantly because game mechanics MAY fit perfectly well with the myth and game mechanics may suck at capturing the myth. In the myth Perseus knew he didn't want to look and made an effort to not look. He was successful. He MIGHT have failed. But he was successful. A save is a perfectly valid way of modeling this situation and, if the players at the table value the narrative, a save can always be described as "you managed to not look". Again, I'm all for using a WILL save instead. But it certainly isn't hard to rationalize why a FORT save would work in a way that fits "you didn't look" rather than "you overcame it". In my game you get a save. In my game the myth trumps "game play" and if you look you turn to stone. End of discussion there. If you look you turn to stone. The save determines if you look. And, yes, there may be circumstances in which there is no save allowed. I don't recall anyone ever not actually getting a save in real play, but I can imagine it happening. Myth trumps game play. If you look you turn to stone. Simple. [/QUOTE]

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