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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4736405" data-attributes="member: 2011">There is a difference between inferring and knowing.Precisely. Thanks for pointing out some more rules on this:"Therefore, within the rules of the game and the limits of PC knowledge, Insight, and Perception, tell players everything they need to know.There is no such thing as a Minion in the PC knowledge base. Roles are not part of the Monster knowledge checks. Metagaming knowledge is outside the limits of PC knowledge.Players do not need to know which ones are minions. Like to know, sure. Want to know, sure. Need to know in order to play the game, no.Do you tell the players that a given NPC is a Controller, or do you let them infer it from the fact that the creature webbed an area or based on a knowledge check that told them of its powers?Do you tell the players "Hey Frank, these 3 are minions, you had best use your area effect attack on them"? The DM might as well not even have players at his table if he is going to do that or if he is going to be so blatant with his descriptions that it's a sure bet for the players. No inferring, just knowing.I have no problem with the players inferring whatever they want. I have no problem with them inferring information from the description of the monster that I give and the monster knowledge checks they make.I will describe the creature based on the information that the PCs know, not the information the players know. PCs know conditions. PCs know effects of powers affecting them. PCs know nothing of roles.Big difference. And, it is a difference directly supported by the rules.The difference is giving the players so much information that they cannot NOT infer it. If one limits it to what the DMG suggests, within the limits of PC knowledge, then role is not information handed out. They can infer it, but it is not handed out.</blockquote>

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