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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4736776" data-attributes="member: 2011">I'm not playing the Lord of the Rings. The game can be very cinematic without handing metagame info out like candy. You are basing this analogy on a faulty premise.The fact that people ignore the 4E rules and DMG guidelines and still insist that 4E is designed to have players immediately know which enemies are minions is telling. The rules on what information to hand out do not indicate that role information should be handed out.How exactly do the 4 or even 8 Decrepit Skeletons actually do serious damage to any party? They are level one. They fall over if you breath on them.Maybe they are a more serious threat with your minion house rules. D8+2 (or D6+3) damage is strong damage against first level PCs, but not overwhelming. It would take an average of 27 successful minion hits to wipe out a party of 5 first level PCs (taking into account healing surges and leader heal powers) at the 35% to 55% hit ratio of the skeletons. That's quite a few rounds. Plenty of time for the PCs to react and wipe out a bunch of them.A first level Fire Beetle averages 7 damage.A first level Spiretop Drake averages 7.5 damage.A first level Goblin Blackblade averages 5.5 damage.A first level Goblin Warrior averages 6.5 damage.A first level Halfling Slinger averages 6.5 damage.A first level Riding Horse averages 7.5 damage.A first level Kobold Skirmisher averages 4.5 damage.A first level Kobold Slinger averages 6.5 damage.A first level Dire Rat averages 5.5 damage.A first level Stormclaw Scorpion averages 6.5 damage.A first level Stirge averages 2.5 damage plus ongoing 5 damage.6.5 damage for the "toughest first level minion" is not that unreasonable.The 4E mindset? Or your mindset? Nothing in the 4E rules indicate that a monster using a weapon should not do weapon damage. In fact, the opposite occurs in the MM.Take a Minotaur Warrior with Str 23 and a Greataxe. It should do 1d10 + 6 damage. It does do 1d10 + 6 damage.The 4E mindset appears to be that monsters with weapons should often follow the standard weapon damage rules. The main exception to this appears to be minions and we are in a thread discussing house rules for minions.There are exceptions at high levels, but those consist of monsters doing weapon damage plus some other amount of damage, often to get on par with the DMG monster damage suggestions for those levels.</blockquote>

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