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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8959163" data-attributes="member: 20564">If the character is the foundation of competence - a player being bad will not reduce a competent character to incompetence, that's a floor on the result.&nbsp; In D&amp;D, a d20+4 will pass every DC 5 check but that's a boring example.What if the character's abilities are not just the floor of competence, but also the roof?&nbsp; What if no matter how good speech a player gives, the bonuses can't push the top of the results higher than the characters competence.&nbsp; One way to think of this is that Advantage will tend towards trolling higher, but won't change the maximum.Just for an example, let's say there was a system where skills were ranked as: Untrained, Neophyte, Apprentice, Journeyman, Master, and Grandmaster.&nbsp; Your random generation can give you a result between your competence and two levels up.&nbsp; Good play can, like the Advantage mechanic in 5e, give you a greater chance to get a better result, but can't change the roof.&nbsp; (Maybe it's roll X dice take the highest, and good play can get you more dice.)&nbsp; So if a character is untrained at Oratory, no matter how impassioned a speech the player gives it still can't go above Apprentice-level results.&nbsp; This means that player mastery will have an effect, but that the character's competence still defines the limits, both best and worst, the character will do under normal circumstances.And, if wanted, there could be further advantages and flaws, like Uncouth could either reduce the number of dice, or drop the result one category, when it comes up.&nbsp; Just need to make sure not to double-penalize by having a mechanical effect of Uncouth, and then not give bonus dice for a player RPing Uncouth as opposed to trying their best to persuade.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8959163, member: 20564"] If the character is the foundation of competence - a player being bad will not reduce a competent character to incompetence, that's a floor on the result. In D&D, a d20+4 will pass every DC 5 check but that's a boring example. What if the character's abilities are not just the floor of competence, but also the roof? What if no matter how good speech a player gives, the bonuses can't push the top of the results higher than the characters competence. One way to think of this is that Advantage will tend towards trolling higher, but won't change the maximum. Just for an example, let's say there was a system where skills were ranked as: Untrained, Neophyte, Apprentice, Journeyman, Master, and Grandmaster. Your random generation can give you a result between your competence and two levels up. Good play can, like the Advantage mechanic in 5e, give you a greater chance to get a better result, but can't change the roof. (Maybe it's roll X dice take the highest, and good play can get you more dice.) So if a character is untrained at Oratory, no matter how impassioned a speech the player gives it still can't go above Apprentice-level results. This means that player mastery will have an effect, but that the character's competence still defines the limits, both best and worst, the character will do under normal circumstances. And, if wanted, there could be further advantages and flaws, like Uncouth could either reduce the number of dice, or drop the result one category, when it comes up. Just need to make sure not to double-penalize by having a mechanical effect of Uncouth, and then not give bonus dice for a player RPing Uncouth as opposed to trying their best to persuade. [/QUOTE]

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