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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7331214" data-attributes="member: 4937">1. What magic shop?  I don't have 'magic shops' per se.2. Even to the extent that I do have magic shops, they mostly work on commission, so its not like there is a lot of stock lying around to steal.3. A magic shop is fundamentally no different than any other shop dealing with relatively high value wares.  They have reasonable precautions that depend on the value of the wares.  The more valuable the wares, the better the precautions will by necessity be.   Typically, in a very high end store, nothing is on display.  If you want to view something, you pay a deposit to prove that you are a serious buyer.  Items are kept in individually locked chests, chained up in individually locked cabinets, which are in turn bolted through the paving stone to metal rods beneath the floor.  All of that is contained in a locked vault.  Nothing is labelled; the proprietor knows his stock, or he searches for it if necessary.  Arcane locks tend to be heavily employed, and containers themselves are magicked if possible to make them more impregnable.  Multiple guards are on duty to oversee the process and keep a watch on things.   An alarm bell is available to summon aid from the town watch.   Guard dogs trained to react to things that they can smell and hear but not see are used to watch for invisible intruders.   Guards are generally locked into the building at night, and bolt and bar the place from the inside.  Guards are well trained to deal with low level spells and may even have been taught some spellcraft.  The better the establishment, the more professional the guards.  Walls are generally constructed to fortress grade, windows are small, and guarded by both colored glass (to block line of sight) and bars (to block physical intrusion).  The building is generally warded by a dimension lock, walls are mortared with bricks mortar mixed with blood, thin lead plates line the interior of rooms to resist scrying and ethereal travel, and a circle of protection is generally scribed around a perimeter room enclosing the inner vault to stop conjured creatures.   There are numerous effective homebrew defensive spells that will be employed.   It wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility for such a shop having been established for a long time, to have a relationship with one or more fairy beings or outsiders - even a tasked genie or a modron - sympathetic to the owners or to the concept of law and order, or simply to the very idea of the inviolability of the building.  Indeed, in a very old building it's possible that the building itself or some of the doors would have become sentient to some degree.   It's possible that an archon or a devil would hold a contract with the building's owners.  These beings would engage in counter-measures amounting to minor defensive magic should anyone attempt to breach the defenses of the building, or in an extremis possibly engage in combat on the owner or buildings behalf.   In short, if there is anything valuable to be stolen, precautions will be taken to ensure that doesn't happen commiserate to the value of the item. 5. The really top level magic merchants don't even advertise their businesses publically.  Shopping by invitation only to private auctions, the time and location of which are not disclosed except to those with invitations.  They move merchandise by anonymous curriers, and they try not to hang on to wares for long.  They've been doing this for centuries and they have PC grade ability to protect themselves and their wares.  Their customers include most of the major nations, sovereigns, temples and guilds in the whole world.  Taking one on is fairly substantial enemy.   4. Even if you stole it, it probably isn't going to be labelled.  You now have to figure out what it does, a process that is expensive, or dangerous, or both.5. Speaking of precautions, a few cursed items among the 'treasure' could be among those.6. If you robbed a magic shop, you've just either killed a wizard or made one very angry.  Someone is likely to take interest in your crime.  But if you systematically start robbing magic shops and killing wizards, now you've just made a guild of wizards angry.  Now you've brought down the wrath of some seriously well connected and potent individuals.  They will employ divination magic to full effect to track down the culprits.  They'll employ assassins to kill them and simultaneously likely involve temples of deities connected to the practice of magic as a profession, who in turn will employ their own divination magic and assign champions, Templars, and inquisitors to track down the culprits.  7. I can rely on the mentality of the players.  Those sorts that think this is a splendid idea invariably lack the patience to wait around until their characters could reasonably accomplish such crimes and get away with it.  Instead, they try this at a very early level, and get themselves killed.   After a couple of times being burned while players that don't act so rashly succeed, the problem tends to right itself.8. Could seriously skilled players with high level PC's rob magic shops?  Absolutely, but that's a caper I wouldn't mind seeing them pull off.  I played a thief in 1e for a long time.  That's going to be a darn good thief to beat me at my own game.   Takes a thief to catch one, and all.</blockquote>

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