Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Some mechanisms (often ported from the old days) are putting the incentives in the wrong place - blog post discussion
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Composer99" data-source="post: 9231712" data-attributes="member: 7030042"><p>I want to iterate on this, because I think there's something missing here - it's not <em>just</em> about avoiding random encounters. There's also a subtle push-your-luck play going on here!</p><p></p><p>Why are you encumbered, and therefore moving more slowly, and therefore at greater risk of random encounters and the risks they entail? Because you're carrying more <em>stuff</em> - most importantly, provisions and loot.</p><p></p><p>The reason encumbrance matters in classical dungeon-crawling play is because <em>it is the source of the crucial gameplay decisions</em> that players have to make in that style of play: are you willing to risk more random encounters in order to be better equipped against the other kinds of dangers the dungeon presents? How much loot are you going to try to take with you? Are you willing to risk more random encounters on the way back out so that you can haul more loot? Or are you instead going to be <em>less </em>prepared, and haul out <em>less</em> loot (perhaps a disappointingly lesser amount) in order to ablate the random encounter risks?</p><p></p><p>Because the point of classic play is to collect loot and bring it out of the dungeon, the encumbrance mechanic and its implications set up the push-your-luck play: you want to carry as much loot as you can, so maybe you push your luck and encumber yourself. The greater risk increases the tension and emotional stakes - and hence, the fun!</p><p></p><p>(Parenthetically, I should note that nothing about encumbrance driving the above play decisions requires that it be, say, pound-weight or coin-weight encumbrance! Even many OSR dungeon-crawlers these days have abandoned pound-weight or coin-weight measurements in favour of some other way of tracking encumbrance.)</p><p></p><p>Contrast this with heroic adventure play. In this kind of play, the <em>risk versus reward</em> balancing act that players have to consider is something completely different, and may well not have much to do with earning loot at all. It's probably more closely related to things like player character goals - what do you want, and what are you willing to give up to get it? - or heroic dilemmas - if you can't save everyone, who do you save? - or heroic quests - can you make it to the Temple of Doom in time to stop the conjuring of the Demon of Doom, and how will the actions you take increase or decrease your chances of success?</p><p></p><p>In heroic play, "how much can you carry on an ongoing basis?" is usually just not an interesting question with enjoyable gameplay coming out of it, and I don't think adding the complexity of a widget that makes tracking encumbrance worthwhile on a stand-alone basis is adding any depth to the actual focus gameplay.</p><p></p><p>If anything, the answer to encumbrance in modern D&D (arrant nonsense such as "games using the D&D label" notwithstanding) is to jettison it. If you absolutely <em>have</em> to include some kind of limitation in order to appeal to your own or your players' preferences as regards verisimilitude, use a simpler mechanic, always ensure the player characters have plentiful ways within the in-game fiction to haul piles of gear around, or, as suggested by [USER=7025508]@Crimson Longinus[/USER], just kind of handwave it as long as no one is trying to game the system.</p><p></p><p>(That being said, having read through the blog post linked in the OP, it strikes me that the game the original blogger is running is the kind of game where "how much can you carry on an ongoing basis?" - or perhaps, better worded "how valuable do you find it to over-burden yourself with <em>stuff </em>during any given phase of the adventure?" is a more interesting question that is actually driving gameplay! So it certainly makes sense that they want to have an encumbrance system with teeth - just different teeth, so it seems, than would have been biting on the player characters in classic D&D dungeon-crawling.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Composer99, post: 9231712, member: 7030042"] I want to iterate on this, because I think there's something missing here - it's not [I]just[/I] about avoiding random encounters. There's also a subtle push-your-luck play going on here! Why are you encumbered, and therefore moving more slowly, and therefore at greater risk of random encounters and the risks they entail? Because you're carrying more [I]stuff[/I] - most importantly, provisions and loot. The reason encumbrance matters in classical dungeon-crawling play is because [I]it is the source of the crucial gameplay decisions[/I] that players have to make in that style of play: are you willing to risk more random encounters in order to be better equipped against the other kinds of dangers the dungeon presents? How much loot are you going to try to take with you? Are you willing to risk more random encounters on the way back out so that you can haul more loot? Or are you instead going to be [I]less [/I]prepared, and haul out [I]less[/I] loot (perhaps a disappointingly lesser amount) in order to ablate the random encounter risks? Because the point of classic play is to collect loot and bring it out of the dungeon, the encumbrance mechanic and its implications set up the push-your-luck play: you want to carry as much loot as you can, so maybe you push your luck and encumber yourself. The greater risk increases the tension and emotional stakes - and hence, the fun! (Parenthetically, I should note that nothing about encumbrance driving the above play decisions requires that it be, say, pound-weight or coin-weight encumbrance! Even many OSR dungeon-crawlers these days have abandoned pound-weight or coin-weight measurements in favour of some other way of tracking encumbrance.) Contrast this with heroic adventure play. In this kind of play, the [I]risk versus reward[/I] balancing act that players have to consider is something completely different, and may well not have much to do with earning loot at all. It's probably more closely related to things like player character goals - what do you want, and what are you willing to give up to get it? - or heroic dilemmas - if you can't save everyone, who do you save? - or heroic quests - can you make it to the Temple of Doom in time to stop the conjuring of the Demon of Doom, and how will the actions you take increase or decrease your chances of success? In heroic play, "how much can you carry on an ongoing basis?" is usually just not an interesting question with enjoyable gameplay coming out of it, and I don't think adding the complexity of a widget that makes tracking encumbrance worthwhile on a stand-alone basis is adding any depth to the actual focus gameplay. If anything, the answer to encumbrance in modern D&D (arrant nonsense such as "games using the D&D label" notwithstanding) is to jettison it. If you absolutely [I]have[/I] to include some kind of limitation in order to appeal to your own or your players' preferences as regards verisimilitude, use a simpler mechanic, always ensure the player characters have plentiful ways within the in-game fiction to haul piles of gear around, or, as suggested by [USER=7025508]@Crimson Longinus[/USER], just kind of handwave it as long as no one is trying to game the system. (That being said, having read through the blog post linked in the OP, it strikes me that the game the original blogger is running is the kind of game where "how much can you carry on an ongoing basis?" - or perhaps, better worded "how valuable do you find it to over-burden yourself with [I]stuff [/I]during any given phase of the adventure?" is a more interesting question that is actually driving gameplay! So it certainly makes sense that they want to have an encumbrance system with teeth - just different teeth, so it seems, than would have been biting on the player characters in classic D&D dungeon-crawling.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Some mechanisms (often ported from the old days) are putting the incentives in the wrong place - blog post discussion
Top